Biblical Hebrew Forum

["K Randolph" <kwrandolph AT gmail.com>]

Isaac:

Did you read the whole chapter? Even just the "paragraph" from verses
14 through 21? The whole section is very poetic, using words in
unusual ways for effect.

As for YT(LM יתעלם in verse 16, is it even from the root (LM עלם or is
it from the otherwise unused root T(L תעל related to the noun T(LH
תעלה ? Or taken in context, the first half of the verse "the ones who
are gloomy on account of the frost ...", (is the (LYMW עלימו connected
to the first part of the verse, or to the succeeding two words?) then
the snow makes them flow down as in a ditch (connecting it to the
previous verse in the same way as the first part of this verse).

The bottom line, you can't take just one verse from a highly poetic
use, where you are not even sure of the root being used, to argue
against the clear meaning of a verb in its other uses.

Karl W. Randolph.

On 6/14/07, Isaac Fried <if AT math.bu.edu> wrote:
> Karl,
>
> Well, if you think that (ALEYMO YITALEM $ELEG,
>
> עָלֵימוֹ יִתְעַלֶּם-שָׁלֶג
>
> is "on them (mountains?) snow will make itself unknown", then so be it. Just
> notice the 'itself' in the statement to account for the fact that YITALEM is
> in Hitpael form.
>
> On Jun 14, 2007, at 1:12 PM, K Randolph wrote:
>
> Dear Isaac:
>
> Though that is the meaning as translated into simple prose, I disagree in
> that that is a highly poetic statement as stated by Job.
>
> Anyone who has seen how a thick layer of snow makes obscure that which is
> below can understand how piles of snow can make unknown that which is below.
> I remember one year while living in Bærum west of Oslo, that the first snow
> of November was the last to melt in May, where the snow piled up to over a
> meter deep making unknown everything below, even the earlier layers (it was
> an unusually cold winter).
>
> What was the climate like in Job's day? Was he living in highlands where
> multiple layers of snow could accumulate before melting in the spring? Was
> the snow making unknown even the earlier layers of snow? A thick layer can
> make unknown even wnere it started from.
>
> While studying prose I will allow for a single exception as a reason to
> question the definitions given in other dictionaries. In poetry, Job being a
> prototypical example of such, I try to translate his poetry into prose
> before using it as an example to question the meaning as indicated by the
> majority of uses. That snow makes even itself unknown fits the context,
> therefore I see no reason to allow the term to have a different meaning than
> what the majority of uses indicate what it has, which is "unknown".
>
> In conclusion, I see no reason to use this passage in Job as a basis to
> question that (LM עלם means "to be unknown".
>
> Karl W. Randolph.
>
> On 6/13/07, Isaac Fried <if AT math.bu.edu> wrote:
>
>
> Karl,
>
> The key point is: Do you agree with me that  Job 6:16: (ALEYMO YIT(ALEM
> $ELEG,
>
> עָלֵימוֹ יִתְעַלֶּם-שָׁלֶג
>
> is "upon them snow will pile itself up" or "upon them snow will accumulate
> itself", or not?
> Because if you do, then we know the basic meaning of the root (LM.
>
> Isaac Fried, Boston University