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  • From: <michaelabernat9001 AT sbcglobal.net>
  • To: <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: [b-hebrew] verb forms - Isaiah 56:6-7 was dying you shall die
  • Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 15:03:17 -0500

Lisbeth,

I know that the Qatal commonly refers to the past
but do you acknowledge any acceptions to that?
Such as when the verb refers to a continuing state.
Gen 4:9.
9 וַיֹּאמֶר יְהוָה אֶל־קַיִן אֵי הֶבֶל אָחִיךָ וַיֹּאמֶר לֹא יָדַעְתִּי הֲשֹׁמֵר אָחִי אָנֹכִי׃
And the LORD said unto Cain: 'Where is Abel thy brother?' And he said: 'I KNOW not; am I my brother's keeper?'

Gen 32:11

קָטֹנְתִּי מִ‍כֹּל הַחֲסָדִים

I am too little for all the mercies. . .

How do you interpret Isaiah 5:13 as a prediction of future captivity or something said after the captivity has begun?

13 לָכֵן גָּלָה עַמִּי מִ‍בְּלִי־דָעַת וּכְבוֹדוֹ מְתֵי רָעָב וַהֲמוֹנוֹ צִחֵה צָמָא׃

Isa 5:13 Therefore My people are gone into captivity, for want of knowledge; and

their honourable men are famished, and their multitude are parched with thirst

Sincerely

Michael Abernathy






----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisbeth S. Fried" <lizfried AT umich.edu>
To: <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 10:01 AM
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] verb forms - Isaiah 56:6-7 was dying you shall die


Dear Harold and Peter,
Yes, you are correct of course. BH has really only two tenses imperfective
and perfective,
plus the participle. The imperfective is for verbs where we would use a
modal, as well as uncompleted actions that began in the past and continue
into the future.
The problems come not in narrative, where it is clear that we are dealing
with a narrative tense (which in English are the past tenses), but in the
prophetic texts.
I should have said that the Qatal is always past, not that the Yiqtol is
always future.
Perhaps you'll prove me wrong here too.
Best,
Liz Fried

-----Original Message-----
From: b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On
Behalf Of Harold Holmyard
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 10:47 AM
To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] verb forms - Isaiah 56:6-7 was dying you shall die

Dear Liz,
>>
>>> Oh, I don't insist on anything but that verbs in Yiqtal be translated
bytheEnglish future
(and verbs in Qatal by English past tense), that's all I
>>> insist on. ...
>>>
>> Yes, but my main point is that this is not necessarily appropriate.
>> Rather often in biblical Hebrew YIQTOL does not have a future meaning,
>> but a past or present continuous one. Or at least that is my
>> understanding of the Hebrew verb system, although of course it is
>> controversial. The problem comes when YIQTOL in biblical Hebrew is >> read
>> as if it were the future tense in modern Hebrew.

Peter is absolutely right, except that the assertion is not even a
matter of controversy. YIQTOL does signify the future in biblical
Hebrew, but that is not all it does. It is the imperfective, and the
imperfective might be considered appropriate for the future, since
future actions are usually not yet complete. But the imperfective is
also used for actions that are in progress or for actions that are
iterative, intermittent, prolonged, or stative. These can be in the
present or past:

Judg 7:5: whoever laps with his tongue

Ex 23:8 a bribe blind officials

Gen 2:6 streams would come up from the ground

1 Sam 1:7 and so he used to do annually

1 Kgs 8:6 a stairway led up to the middle level

Since the YIQTOL may be a blending of two earlier verb forms in West
Semitic, its older forms may even indicate a simple past:

Ex 15:1: then Moses sang

1 Kings 3:16: then two prostitutes came to the king

The YIQTOL has all sorts of modal uses as well, which call for helping
verbs in English like "can, would, could, may, should, must, want, will.

The YIQTOL can also function as an imperative:

Ps 51:9: cleanse me with hyssop

Gen 1:9: let dry land appear

Yours,
Harold Holmyard
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