Biblical Hebrew Forum

[<michaelabernat9001 AT sbcglobal.net>]

Lisbeth,

I know that the Qatal commonly refers to the past
but do you acknowledge any acceptions to that?
Such as when the verb refers to a continuing state.
Gen 4:9.
 9 וַיֹּאמֶר יְהוָה אֶל־קַיִן אֵי הֶבֶל אָחִיךָ וַיֹּאמֶר לֹא יָדַעְתִּי 
הֲשֹׁמֵר אָחִי אָנֹכִי׃
And the LORD said unto Cain: 'Where is Abel thy brother?' And he said: 'I 
KNOW not; am I my brother's keeper?'

Gen 32:11

קָטֹנְתִּי מִ‍כֹּל הַחֲסָדִים

I am too little for all the mercies. . .

How do you interpret Isaiah 5:13 as a prediction of future captivity or 
something said after the captivity has begun?

13 לָכֵן גָּלָה עַמִּי מִ‍בְּלִי־דָעַת וּכְבוֹדוֹ מְתֵי רָעָב וַהֲמוֹנוֹ 
צִחֵה צָמָא׃

Isa 5:13 Therefore My people are gone into captivity, for want of knowledge; 
and

their honourable men are famished, and their multitude are parched with 
thirst

Sincerely

Michael Abernathy






----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lisbeth S. Fried" <lizfried AT umich.edu>
To: <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 10:01 AM
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] verb forms - Isaiah 56:6-7 was dying you shall die


> Dear Harold and Peter,
> Yes, you are correct of course. BH has really only two tenses imperfective
> and perfective,
> plus the participle. The imperfective is for verbs where we would use a
> modal, as well as uncompleted actions that began in the past and continue
> into the future.
> The problems come not in narrative, where it is clear that we are dealing
> with a narrative tense (which in English are the past tenses), but in the
> prophetic texts.
> I should have said that the Qatal is always past, not that the Yiqtol is
> always future.
> Perhaps you'll prove me wrong here too.
> Best,
> Liz Fried
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org
> [mailto:b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On
> > Behalf Of Harold Holmyard
> > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 10:47 AM
> > To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
> > Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] verb forms - Isaiah 56:6-7 was dying you shall 
> > die
> >
> > Dear Liz,
> > >>
> > >>> Oh, I don't insist on anything but that verbs in Yiqtal be translated
> bytheEnglish future
> > (and verbs in Qatal by English past tense), that's all I
> > >>> insist on. ...
> > >>>
> > >> Yes, but my main point is that this is not necessarily appropriate.
> > >> Rather often in biblical Hebrew YIQTOL does not have a future meaning,
> > >> but a past or present continuous one. Or at least that is my
> > >> understanding of the Hebrew verb system, although of course it is
> > >> controversial. The problem comes when YIQTOL in biblical Hebrew is 
> > >> read
> > >> as if it were the future tense in modern Hebrew.
> >
> > Peter is absolutely right, except that the assertion is not even a
> > matter of controversy. YIQTOL does signify the future in biblical
> > Hebrew, but that is not all it does. It is the imperfective, and the
> > imperfective might be considered appropriate for the future, since
> > future actions are usually not yet complete. But the imperfective is
> > also used for actions that are in progress or for actions that are
> > iterative, intermittent, prolonged, or stative.  These can be in the
> > present or past:
> >
> > Judg 7:5: whoever laps with his tongue
> >
> > Ex 23:8 a bribe blind officials
> >
> > Gen 2:6 streams would come up from the ground
> >
> > 1 Sam 1:7 and so he used to do annually
> >
> > 1 Kgs 8:6 a stairway led up to the middle level
> >
> > Since the YIQTOL may be a blending of two earlier verb forms in West
> > Semitic, its older forms may even indicate a simple past:
> >
> > Ex 15:1: then Moses sang
> >
> > 1 Kings 3:16: then two prostitutes came to the king
> >
> > The YIQTOL has all sorts of modal uses as well, which call for helping
> > verbs in English like "can, would, could, may, should, must, want, will.
> >
> > The YIQTOL can also function as an imperative:
> >
> > Ps 51:9: cleanse me with hyssop
> >
> > Gen 1:9: let dry land appear
> >
> > Yours,
> > Harold Holmyard
> > _______________________________________________
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> > b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew
>
>
>
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