Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Shoshanna Walker <rosewalk AT concentric.net>]

There was no Israel????

Then define what you mean by "Israel", because as we all know, Israel 
as an entity, existed from the time that G-d named it, with no 
interruption.

Shoshanna


> Dear Steve,
>
> I'm not sure if I'll manage to answer your questions, but Karl has already
> addressed them. As he wrote, in a sequence such as "Judah, Israel and
> Jerusalem", there is no need to insert "and" between every item. My
> additional question would be - to what "Israel" is the author referring?
> Presumably, Zechariah lived in Persian-period Judah. There was no "Israel".
> He could have been using "Israel" to mean Judah, but the "Judah" is
> redundant.
>
>
> As far as "yadu", the verb is not the same as the one that means ìpraiseî,
> ìgive thanksî, or ìconfessî. Like in Jer. 50:14 and Lam. 3:53, it means "to
> throw". It seems to be derived from "yad", "hand", literally "to hand"
> (although not meaning, as in English, "to give").
>
> Yigal Levin
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Miller" <smille10 AT sbcglobal.net>
> To: <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 1:51 AM
> Subject: [b-hebrew] Zech 1:19,21
>
>
> > Zech 1:19 (2:2 MT)  last phrase ñ ìscattered Judah, Israel and Jerusalem.î
> >
> > ʉ¯Âà ý™‘È¿”ÂÓ»” ý™‘ÈŸ˜"¿¯»ý‰Ï ŸȯÂØ-»Ï»ÕÌ"
> >
> > 1)     There is no ìandî prefix in front of Israel. Without the ìandî in
> > front of Israel, does this mean Israel is not another element in the list,
> > but is in apposition to ìJudahî?
> >
> >
> >
> > 2)     Is there any significance that ìetî, which points to the direct
> > object, precedes Judah and Israel, but not Jerusalem?
> >
> >
> >
> > Zech 1:21 (2:4 MT) end phrase ìthese are come to affright them, to cast
> > out
> > the horns of the nations that lifted up a horn over the land of Judah to
> > scatter it.î
> >
> > «Èû·ŠýÂà ý‰ÏД Ï¿”«Á¬¯ŸÈ“ ýŠ™»Ì Ï¿È«“ʙ ý™‘—«¯¿•ŠÂ™ ”«’ÊÂȟÌ
> >
> >
> >
> > 1)Note that there is no ìandî before the infinitive form of the verb
> > ìyadahî. In the above translation: ìto cast out the horns of the nationsî
> > is
> > in apposition to ìto affright themî. But that doesnít make sense because
> > these are 2 different actions.  When an infinitive verb follows the
> > causative verb ìmake them afraidî, the meaning, everywhere I can find, is
> > to
> > ìto make them afraid to do xxxxxxxî. So in this case, I think it should be
> > partially translated, ìthese are come to make them extremely afraid to
> > ëyadahí the horns of the nations.î (1 Sam 21:1; Exo 3:6;34:30; Num 12:8).
> > Does this make sense?
> >
> >
> >
> > 2) The verb ìyadahî is the root of the name Judah, which appears twice in
> > this verse. The verb is very common in the hiphil, where it means ìpraiseî,
> > ìgive thanksî, or ìconfessî.  The verb appears only once in the Qal, where
> > it is translated ìshoot atî in Jer 50:14. That seems like a very different
> > meaning than the Hiphil. It appears 2 times in the Piel: once here in Zech
> > 1:21, and the other place is Lam 3:53, where it is translated ìcastî as in
> > ìcast a stone upon meî.
> > I would like to translate ìyadahî here in Zech 1:21 as ìpraiseî, or
> >  ìexaltî,
> > so that the phrase would say, ìThese are come to make them [the nations]
> > afraid of exalting the horns of the nations that lifted up Öî. Is this
> > permissible?
> >
> >
> > Thank you.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -Steve Miller
> >
> > Detroit
> >
> > www.voiceInWilderness.info
> >
> > Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but prove the spirits whether they
> > are
> > of God,
> >
> > because many false prophets have gone out into the world. (1 John 4:1)
> >
> >
> >
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> >
> >
> >
> >
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