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  • From: "Rolf Furuli" <furuli AT online.no>
  • To: <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] hell
  • Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 02:27:21 -0000

Dear Rodney,

I am not sure I fully understand the meaning of your words below. I was discussing the condition or state of dead persons according to the thoughts of the writers of the Tanakh, and I was neither denying nor promoting the view that dead persons may have some king of future life.

The issue is: Does man have an intrinsic immortality, i.e., is there a part of man that cannot die and that continues to live after the death of the body? In Greek writings from Plato onwards the view was that man has an immortal soul that continues to live after death. This Greek view (perhaps with Babylonin and Persian influence) was adopted by the Hebrews in the last centuries B.C.E., and it was later adopted by persons professing to be Christians in the first centuries C.E. The consequence of this view is that man has two alternatives, either to receive blessings from God after death or to be tormented forever and ever.

I find absolutely no traces of such a view in the Tanakh, neither do I find any traces of the Ugaritic or Babylonian view that man (the whole man including his body) lives a miserable life in the netherworld after his death.

The passages you quote do not tell of any intrinsic immortality, nor do they tell that a part of man lives after death. But they do suggest hope, they suggest that the Hebrews did not view death as the final end of everything. But it is very important that we do not translate this hope into modern religious views, or old Greek, Persian, or Babylonian views. The words of Daniel 12:13 express in a clear way the view by the writer of that book: NIV says: "You will rest, and then at the end of the days you will rise to receive your alloted inheritance." The hope is not connected with an intrinsic immortality, but with God`s ability and desire to give life to a dead person, i.e., to resurrect or recreate that person. In fact, the view that every man has an immortal soul (intrinsic immortality) and the view of a resurrection of the dead are mutually exclusive concepts. A person needs not be given life (immortality) if that person already possesses life (immortality).

The view of future life as a gift from God, not as a possession of every man, is clearly expressed in Daniel. But in my view, it is implied in a host of other passages in the Tanakh as well. The Babylonians believed that man continued to live after death, but the future was bleak. The writers of the Tanakh believed that death was the termination of life, but they expected a grand future in the hands of God. Hosea 13:14 NIV says: "I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death. Where, O death, are your plagues? Where, O grave, is your destruction?"

The subject of the thread is "hell," and I would like to give a few comments on that from a translational point of view. As every translator knows, a clause in Hebrew or Greek can be rendered into English in different ways without violating any translation rule. This means that we can argue against a particular rendering, saying that it is not accurate, it is misleading, or it is tendentious. But very seldom can we point to a rendering saying that it definitely is wrongly translated. But in connection with the redering "hell" in Bible translations we can say just that. The Greek word translated "hell" is GEENNA, and that is a geographical place, namely a valley outside Jerusalem (GY) BN HNM, Jer 32:35). The physical nature of GEENNA is seen by the fact the the *body* of a man can be thrown in GEENNA (Matthew 5:30). The rule of translation is that a proper name that refers to one particular person or one particular place should be transcribed according to the stock of phonemes of the target language and not be substituted with another word. The substitution of GEENNA with "hell" is a clear violation of that rule; It simply is a wrong translation! The problem with this rendering is enchanced by the great baggage of connotations the modern word "hell" has (from Dane onwards), most of which are not found in the Tanakh or in the New Testament.
True, GEENNA was used in the New Testament to signify something, but whether it stood for eternal torment or eternal annihilation is a matter for the theologian not for the translator. A proper name is a proper name and should not be substituted with another word.

If anybody would claim that death is not the termination of life according to the Tanakh, on has to find passages that show which part of man that survuves death or is eternal. Just to show that the writers of the Tanakh had a hope for the future is not enough.


Best regards,

Rolf Furuli
Univesity of Oslo


----- Original Message ----- From: "B. M. Rocine" <brocine AT twcny.rr.com>
To: "b-hebrew" <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 6:18 PM
Subject: [b-hebrew] hell


Forwarded on behalf of Rodney Duke:

Dear Colleagues,

I am writing in response to Rolf Furuli, who said:

In Hebrew thought the NP$ dies and and go down to $)WL, to the grave,
where there is no life. So any "afterlife" in the sense that man
continues to live after the body dies, is not found in the Tanakh
(including Daniel).

I lean toward the conclusion that in Hebrew thought there WAS a belief
in life after bodily death, based on such passages as: Psalm 73:23-28,
Psalm 49:15-16 (H), and Proverbs 12:28. I agree with those who have
said that there is no emphasis on afterlife in the Hebrew Bible, which
is somewhat true of the NT as well. The concept appears to be that
walking with God in the present results in a lasting life, because of
God's faithfulness, as opposed to the notion that one dies, goes to
heaven, and begins eternal life as a kind of reward.

blessings,
Rodney

--


--
Dr. Rodney K. Duke
Dept. of Phil. & Rel., Appalachian State Univ., Boone, NC 28608
(O) 828-262-3091, (FAX) 828-262-6619, dukerk AT appstate.edu






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