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  • From: Uri Hurwitz <uhurwitz AT yahoo.com>
  • To: "b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org" <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: [b-hebrew] When God began to create...
  • Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 16:51:47 -0800 (PST)

B.M. Rocine wrote, in part:

"To lend support to the idea that Gen. 1:1 should be taken as a dependent
clause,...."

The first verses of Genesis 1 are heavily influenced by the Akkadian
creation epic "Enuma Eli$". This was widely recognized since its discovery
and understanding. It begins with the phrase "When on high...." and
continues thorough several other dependent clauses. I think it was Speiser in
his Anchor Bible translation of Genesis who intorduced the dependent clause
to Gen 1:1, but perhaps he had predecessors.
On the other hand, none of the ancient translations or versions used a
dependent clause to begin this chapter,as far as I know.

I personally prefer the unamended , traditional vocalization "Bara" of
the MT.

As for the various available current new translations I prefer for
stylistic reasons the one by Fox, though I never studied any of the
translations closely.

Uri




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Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Daniel 6:27 (time indefinite) II
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@Solomon:

Why do I get the feeling your going to hold to that view no matter what I say
next?

By the way I looked up WLM in a modern version of BDB and could not find
anything about indefinite time, except in regards to a future event.

Although being honest I was glancing because I was in a rush.
--
Kelton Graham
KGRAHAM0938 AT comcast.net


>
> I fully understand that "time indefinite" does not work for you.
> "Age-abiding" does not work for me, though some translations favor it.
> Such is
> life.
>
> However, defining "olam" as "hidden time, i.e. obscure and long, of which
> the beginning or end is uncertain or indefinite" worked for Gesenius, and
> it
> works for me.
>
> True, as used in the Bible, "olam" does not usually refer to 15 minutes,
> but
> there are places where it does not mean "forever," either. When it means
> "forever" it may be augmented by "we'ad." Or to indicate "forever,"
> another
> Hebrew word, "netsach," may be used.
>
> Maybe it can be illustrated with a closed circle. Where does it begin,
> where does it end? Beginning and end are "indefinite," i.e. undefined.
>
> I think too much of this (over)long discussion has not really been about
> what "olam" means in the Hebrew Bible or how it is used there. It seems to
> be
> about what "olam" or forever means to individual posters.
>
> I like, and am quite comfortable with, "time indefinite." Your are not.
> So, what's new?
>
> Solomon Landers
>
>
> In a message dated 11/22/2005 6:17:06 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> kgraham0938 AT comcast.net writes:
>
> I think the point is that time indefinite is not the same as OLAM. As I
> have pointed out.
>
> 'In' is a prefix meaning no or not.
>
> So in essense what you are saying is that OLAM means no specific time, and
> that is not what the word means. It points to long duration, eternal etc.
>
> If it is simply pointing to no specific time, that time could be 15
> seconds.
> Time indefinite is not a good rendering.
>
> And even if you argue hidden time, that is not the same as indefinite time.
>
>
>
>
>
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