Biblical Hebrew Forum

["Robert Newman" <rob AT designceramics.co.uk>]

Peter wrote:
Robert, I have not brushed off the examples of PAST `olam which you 
gave, but have accepted that they, and this is also true of your new 
ones, are somewhat different from the future examples, such that they 
cannot be rendered "for ever" in English. But I continue to insist that 
the meaning here is something like "since the very beginning", that at 
least in the understanding of the author there was no time before the 
beginning of that `olam period. That is more or less a definition of 
eternity past.

Hi Peter,
I understand your argument, but I don't see how it fits the examples.

Ge 6:4 "heroes of old" - olam refers back to the time of the Nephilim, not 
the "very beginning" and not eternity past from tne viewpoint of the writer!

De 32:7 "Remember the days of old" when? "ask your father to inform you" 
about what? The period of human history described in the subsequent verses, 
not 'the beginning of time'.

Jos 24:2 "long ago your forefathers" . How can this mean "ever since 
creation, as far as we know"?

I won't bother going through all the examples. Your 'perspective' 
explaination is insufficient. My point is that olam can describe time that is 
not eternal, while it clearly means forever in many contexts, we should not 
insist that it always does. Just as the words "long" and "old" are indistinct 
as to there end olam has a similar indistinctness.

Peter wrote:
 As for examples of `olam with FUTURE reference which cannot be 
understood as "for ever", I understand your "All the examples I can 
think of with respect to future reference require some degree of 
interpretation (like Karls one), and they should be clear to 
theologians." as tantamount to an admission that it is only within 
certain theological interpretive frameworks that some occurrences of 
`olam cannot be understood as referring to eternity, or at least my 
"subjective" eternity.

Response:
Not really, Karls example would be accepted by mainstream Christian 
theologians. My hesitantcy to give you examples is because of the position 
you continue to maintain with respect to the twenty or so (with past 
reference)  I've already given you. They just require a brief glance at 
context, as far as I know examples with respect to future reference require a 
bit of reasoning. I think the examples with past reference are sufficient, 
why would olam be used differently with future reference anyhow?