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  • From: Peter Kirk <peterkirk AT qaya.org>
  • To: Jim West <jwest AT highland.net>
  • Cc: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] OT- perspective (was Josiah's book of the Law)
  • Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2005 00:52:17 +0100

On 05/08/2005 00:08, Jim West wrote:



Peter Kirk wrote:

On 04/08/2005 20:50, Jim West wrote:

The DtrH does not find its genesis (thats a funny yet ironic phrase) in the period of Josiah. It was written after the exile. And probably during the Hasmonean period. ...


What evidence do you have for this unqualified assertion? I note that in a later posting you qaulified it with "in my estimation". But why didn't you write that the first time?



Well one can generally presume that anytime anyone writes anything they are expressing their views. I presume, for instance, that what you write is what you think. ...


No, Jim, if I write that something happened, without qualification, I mean not just that it is my view or opinion that it happened, but that I know that it happened, beyond reasonable doubt. You cannot know, beyond reasonable doubt, that the DtrH (whatever that might be) was written after the exile, because there is insufficient evidence. But I would let this pass if you could provide some good evidence that this actually happened.

... Further, I take it at face value that if you think something you dont need to have 4000 other people think it for it to be valid or invalid. each thought has either merit or lack thereof and truth is not determined by a popularity contest. thats why i dont generally play the "so and so says in this or that place". I realize some do not and cannot think for themselves, but i think better of you than that and thus do not require your every word to drip bibliography. ...


Thank you. Bibliographies tend not to impress me anyway.

... As for evidence, the language of the text itself is sufficient to establish its lateness, as the late Fred Cryer also recognized. (see any of his writings for confirmation of his views- which i share with him).


This argument is almost entirely circular. We have so little evidence of pre-exilic Hebrew, if we don't accept anything in the Bible as pre-exilic a priori, that we have no hope of establishing absolute rather than relative dates of any documents.


... But you are right- there is scant archaeological evidence for anything in the Hebrew Bible.


What, not even for Nebuchadnezzar and Cyrus?



And what do Cyrus and Nebuchadnezzer do to prove the Bible's account of Israel's history? ...


They are part of the Bible's account of Israel's history. They are themselves something in the Hebrew Bible. And this confirmation of the general accuracy of part of this history tends to suggest the reliability of more of it.

... As I said to Brian offlist- the problem, i think, is that archaeology is made to bear a burden of proof it cannot. ...


Indeed. But you then seem to argue "There is no evidence for this" (without making explicit that you are counting only archaeological evidence, which even in principle cannot provide the evidence) and from that "This probably did not happen" - or even, in the case of the date of the writing of the DtrH, "This did not happen" without qualification.

--
Peter Kirk
peter AT qaya.org (personal)
peterkirk AT qaya.org (work)
http://www.qaya.org/





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