Biblical Hebrew Forum

["Karl Randolph" <kwrandolph AT email.com>]

Peter:

The lack in Greek of some of the sounds in Hebrew, such as 
the glottal stop and he, as well as the tendency of Greek 
to conjugate loan words and even names, makes it hard to 
impossible to make any definitive statement concerning the 
furtive patah as transcribed into Greek.

For example, the name Noah, modern points giving NuaX, what 
was the original pronunciation? In New Testament times, it 
could have been NoXe, which the Greeks heard as Noe, as far 
as what we can tell from the transcriptions into Greek.

Karl W. Randolph.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Kirk" <peterkirk AT qaya.org>

> 
> On 21/07/2005 20:37, Karl Randolph wrote:
> 
> > I wonder if the furtive Petah is a vestage of an original 
> > pronunciation of -Ha or -Xa, or in the case of Ayin -(a with a 
> > full glottal stop? It makes those readings a lot easier.
> >
> >
> >
> The history of the furtive patah is interesting. But I don't think 
> it is as you suggest.
> 
> It is helpful to look at old forms of names with furtive patah. For 
> example, Yehoshua`/Yeshua`. The Greek form of this is almost always 
> IHSOUS, with no trace of an "a" vowel; nothing like IHSOUAS is ever 
> found, although the odd spelling IWSHE (W = omega, H = eta) is 
> found in the Lucianic recension of LXX. But by the time of the 
> Latin Vulgate Jerome writes IOSVE (and IESVS only for the New 
> Testament character). This suggests a vowel glide in the 
> pronunciation he heard, but not an "a" vowel. I think it was only 
> with the Reformation that spellings like Joshua, with a final a, 
> became standard.
> 
> Another name with a furtive patah is Noah. Here the Greek is NWE, 
> and the Vulgate is NOE - so evidence of a vowel glide, but to "e" 
> rather than "a".
> 
> Of course we cannot tell whether this final "e" was pronounced 
> before or after the guttural consonant, because neither Greek nor 
> Latin represented these consonants.
> 
> In fact it is part of the nature of sounds like het, ayin and 
> (voiced) he that it is difficult to pronounce them with close 
> vowels like "i" and "u". That explains the strong tendency 
> throughout Hebrew grammar for "a" vowels before and after 
> gutturals. And it explains why an "a" vowel was inserted to ease 
> the transition from "i" or "u" to a word final guttural.
> 
> 
> -- Peter Kirk
> peter AT qaya.org (personal)
> peterkirk AT qaya.org (work)
> http://www.qaya.org/

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