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b-hebrew - Re: [b-hebrew] "Shaf`el" in Hebrew?

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  • From: "Karl Randolph" <kwrandolph AT email.com>
  • To: Hebrew <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] "Shaf`el" in Hebrew?
  • Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2005 23:50:58 -0500


----- Original Message -----
From: "Yitzhak Sapir" <yitzhaksapir AT gmail.com>
>
> Karl Randolph wrote:
>
...
>
> I think it might be worthwhile for you to get acquainted with the
> consonantal texts of the DSS and the Samaritan Pentateuch.
> These have additional consonantal methods for elaborating vowels.
> So even if you think the Tiberian pointing is "invented", you will have
> additional grammatical information dated to the last centuries BCE
> that would be useful for differentiating the forms.

Are there any sites on the internet to view these varient forms? The only
places I have found have been either paper or purchased, both costing many
hundreds of $$ that I don't have.
>
> > The above pattern has neither the place nor the need for a "shafel"
> > form.
>
> What would you make of the Polel and Hitpolel forms? (consider
> verbs: Romem and Hitromem, from the root rwm). In my opinion,
> because of its evolution, Shafel is an alternative for Hiphil. In any
> case, languages develop naturally. They aren't designed by
> language architects so that they have a clear set amount of forms
> that can't be broken. There will be irregular forms of all sorts.
>
You have the shafel form based on speculation on one verb, and that one
example is disputed, even as early as Ibn Ezra. To have a shafel as an
alternate for hiphil, you need more than one disputed example, which you
don't have.

I have no problem with irregular verbs, but to claim that a complete
grammatical structure can be built on one disputed example somewhat escapes
me.

I get the impression that modern scholars think that the ancient Hebrews were
rather dull people without any originality nor ability to use picturesque,
indirect speech. Since I believe that the ancients were just as capable of
playing with language as any of their modern descendents, I have no problem
with "I am darkened (because) which the sun glimpsed me" as a picturesque way
of saying that "I've been out in the sun and I am tanned."
>
> Yitzhak Sapir

Karl W. Randolph.
--
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