Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Uri Hurwitz <uhurwitz AT yahoo.com>]

Any root with a medial Waw assumes this form in the Piel. You may wish to 
check this out.
 It seems to me there is no diffrerence in the meaning between the Qal and 
Piel in this case, which I believe was the original question.
 
Uri
  


"Lisbeth S. Fried" <lizfried AT umich.edu> wrote:


Dear Peter, Yigal, et. al.,
First, thanks for thinking about this topic.
This lable for this form of the verb, polel, was new to me.
I had never thought about it as a separate form before.
Second, except for two other verses,
the polel of $yr appears only in Chronicles, Ezra, and Nehemiah.
The two other verses are Job 36:24 and Zeph. 2:14
(according to Bible Works, I should add I suppose).
So, my primary question is what is the thrust of the polel here?
and, secondly, can we conclude anything from the fact that
it is largely confined to Chronicles-Ezra-Nehemiah?
Thanks
Liz

> -----Original Message-----
> From: b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:b-hebrew-
> bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Yigal Levin
> Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 8:10 AM
> To: b-hebrew
> Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Singers
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter Kirk" 

> > >That's assuming that both the Deut. History AND Qohelet are pre-exilic,
> > >which most scholars would have reservations about.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Their reservations might evaporate if they took this kind of linguistic
> > evidence seriously. There are real linguistic differences between the
> > clearly post-exilic books and the rest of the HB, which imply at least a
> > different time of composition and suggest a period of instability
> > allowing rapid language change. (On this hypothesis, Esther has to be
> > explained as deliberate archaising.)
> >
> > But I won't push for a pre-exilic Qohelet.
> >
> > --
> > Peter Kirk
> 
> I agree entirely that there are differences between pre- and post-exilic
> Hebrew, and I certainly don't subscribe to the "everything is late"
school.
> However, in this particular case, the difference between $arim and
me$orerim
> cannot be demonstrated to be only chronological: true that WE HAVE
me$orerim
> only in post-exilic books, but $arim is in both. Which is why I suggested
> looking at different usages.
> 
> Yigal
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> b-hebrew mailing list
> b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew


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From: Uri Hurwitz <uhurwitz AT yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Hebrew plural
To: Yigal Levin <leviny1 AT mail.biu.ac.il>, b-hebrew 
<b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
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When you say "partial explanation" , do you remember by whom?
 
Uri

Yigal Levin <leviny1 AT mail.biu.ac.il> wrote:
It's simply a matter of etiquette, sort of like addressing a single person
"vous" in French. That is also at least a partial explanation for the plural
form of Elohim and Adonai.

Yigal
----- Original Message -----
From: "Karl Randolph" 
To: "b-hebrew" 
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 7:15 AM
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Hebrew plural


> John:
>
> I noticed that it is not uncommon for people who are in a superior status,
such as master or lord, are often referred to in the plural when a single
individual is meant. I first noticed it while reading through Deuteronomy,
but it is found in other places as well.
>
> I don't think it is the royal plural, but I have no explanation for it.
>
> Karl W. Randolph.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: John Cordaro 
>
> > Can someone please elaborate on Eccl 12:1 and Isaiah 54:5. Is it true
> > that "Creator" is plural in Eccl 12:1 and "husband" and "Maker" are
> > plural in Is 54:5?
> > If so, how does one determine it is plural and how should we then
> > understand these verses? Is it similar to a plural of majesty or are we
> > to believe there are two Creators (or more) which is contrary to Is
> > 44:24 which states YHWH created "alone" and by Himself?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > John
> --
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From: "Lisbeth S. Fried" <lizfried AT umich.edu>
To: "'b-hebrew'" <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: RE: [b-hebrew] Singers
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  _____  

From: Uri Hurwitz [mailto:uhurwitz AT yahoo.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 11:26 AM
To: Lisbeth S. Fried; 'b-hebrew'
Subject: RE: [b-hebrew] Singers

 

Any root with a medial Waw assumes this form in the Piel. 

Goodness, that's what I had always assumed, in fact. 
I had always simply interpreted it as a piel.

That's why I was surprised to discover a whole new form.

It's listed in Gesenius as a "less common" conjugation, so

I didn't think it was piel but something I hadn't heard of before.

You may wish to check this out.

 It seems to me there is no diffrerence in the meaning between the Qal and
Piel in this case, which I believe was the original question.

Yes, that is indeed my original question. I guess just style then.

Thanks.

Liz

 

Uri

  



"Lisbeth S. Fried" <lizfried AT umich.edu> wrote:



Dear Peter, Yigal, et. al.,
First, thanks for thinking about this topic.
This lable for this form of the verb, polel, was new to me.
I had never thought about it as a separate form before.
Second, except for two other verses,
the polel of $yr appears only in Chronicles, Ezra, and Nehemiah.
The two other verses are Job 36:24 and Zeph. 2:14
(according to Bible Works, I should add I suppose).
So, my primary question is what is the thrust of the polel here?
and, secondly, can we conclude anything from the fact that
it is largely confined to Chronicles-Ezra-Nehemiah?
Thanks
Liz

> -----Original Message-----
> From: b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:b-hebrew-
> bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Yigal Levin
> Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 8:10 AM
> To: b-hebrew
> Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Singers
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter Kirk" 
> > >That's assuming that both the Deut. History AND Qohelet are pre-exilic,
> > >which most scholars would have reservations about.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Their reservations might evaporate if they took this kind of linguistic
> > evidence seriously. There are real linguistic differences between the
> > clearly post-exilic books and the rest of the HB, which imply at least a
> > different time of composition and suggest a period of instability
> > allowing rapid language change. (On this hypothesis, Esther has to be
> > explained as deliberate archaising.)
> >
> > But I won't push for a pre-exilic Qohelet.
> >
> > --
> > Peter Kirk
> 
> I agree entirely that there are differences between pre- and post-exilic
> Hebrew, and I certainly don't subscribe to the "everything is late"
school.
> However, in this particular case, the difference between $arim and
me$orerim
> cannot be demonstrated to be only chronological: true that WE HAVE
me$orerim
> only in post-exilic books, but $arim is in both. Which is why I suggested
> looking at different usages.
> 
> Yigal
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> b-hebrew mailing list
> b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew


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