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  • From: "VC" <vadim_lv AT center-tv.net>
  • To: <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] OT: a link about Modern Hebrew
  • Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 21:04:17 +0300

Dear George,

Even many Christian scholars doubt the accuracy of the Acts. Don't rely on
the mention of Gamliel.

Philo's grammar is not that bad as you imagine. elokim may refer to prominent
men. MT does not have "sons of God", as you believe. It has bnei elokim, and
now you imagine this means sons of God, which is ludicrous in the first
place, since God has no physical sons to copulate with earthly women.

>If the passage is "garbled", it hardly falls to the account of Christians. <
But using this garbled gibberish for thousands of years - yes, it falls to
their account.

>I would say that you apparently have about as much antipathy to Christianity
>as some who are considered anti-Semitic have toward Jews<
You mix different things. I reject Christianity for intellectual reasons. I
don't hate people of Christian faith, of course. Anti-Semites hate Jews; they
cannot disregard Judaism, since they proclaim their religion is based upon it.

>about as much knowledge of those you excoriate as the anti-Semitic have <
I wrote already in this list for someone else. I guess writing a book of 800
pages on early Christianity establish my credentials as someone who knows the
subject.

>The method employed in understanding the text within the church was about
>the same as that employed in the synagogue<
Ludicrous. Jesus was asked, by whose authority he was doing these things. The
text is wrong, as the question refers to teaching. He didn't rely on any
authority in his interpretation - thus, his method was not rabbinical to
begin with. He didn't employ any of the four or sixteen standard methods.

>It is this type of interpretation which has evolved the kashrut rule for the
>separation of meat and dairy from the prohibition to "seeth a kid in its
>mother's milk." <
You simply don't know. The idea was to avoid inadvertent sin.


Sincerely,

Vadim Cherny
I would hardly say that a student of the eminent Gamaliel did not know
Tanak (BTW: the author of Acts where the Stephen quotation appears was a
companion of this same student of Gamaliel, the Apostle Paul). As regards
the "garbled quotations" you might consult Philo regarding his understanding
of Tanak. Take but a small example: Gen 6.2. Here the MT and the LXX have
"Sons of God" but Philo says

"And when the angels of God saw the daughters of men that they were
beautiful, they took unto themselves wives of all of them whom they chose."
Those beings, whom other philosophers call demons, Moses usually calls
angels; and they are souls hovering in the air.

Obviously they are not called AGGELOI [LXX] or MaL:)fKiYM [MT] but
B:N"Y_Hf)e:LoHiYM.

I hardly think that the LXX which was the Bible of the early church was a
product of Romans or Chinese but of Greek-speaking Jews. If the passage is
"garbled", it hardly falls to the account of Christians. I would say that
you apparently have about as much antipathy to Christianity as some who are
considered anti-Semitic have toward Jews -- and about as much knowledge of
those you excoriate as the anti-Semitic have (or should I say "about as
little knowledge"?). The method employed in understanding the text within
the church was about the same as that employed in the synagogue which is
quite different from that which would be used today in academic circles. It
is this type of interpretation which has evolved the kashrut rule for the
separation of meat and dairy from the prohibition to "seeth a kid in its
mother's milk." This has become a part of the observant Jew's practice. I
am not going to beat them over the head and say that they shouldn't be doing
that, but I think they themselves realize that it was not the intention of
the text in its origin but a development in the history of their faith. As
such their practice is beyond any criticism.

gfsomsel
_________

On Tue, 8 Jun 2004 16:21:20 +0300 "VC" <vadim_lv AT center-tv.net> writes:
>
> >>I may understand when the earliest Christians, not well-acquianted
> with
> the
> >>Tanakh, put much stock in the title messiah. But I'm puzzled why
> this
> title
> >>is of importance to you.
> >You seem to have a misunderstanding about who the earliest
> Christians were.
> The earliest Christians were Jews. Gentiles were not initially
> included in
> the membership of the church. While it is true that some of them may
> not
> have been well versed in the scripture, some of them were very well
> educated.<
>
> Surely, very odd Jews those have been. They did not know Tanakh,
> cited
> garbled quotations of the verses the should have studied in
> childhood (if
> you know about bar Sheta reforms) and were unobservant. Wishful
> thinking
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Vadim Cherny
>
>
> Sincerely,
> Michael Abernathy
>
>
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