Biblical Hebrew Forum

["VC" <vadim_lv AT center-tv.net>]

> > Since Oral Tradition was not written but memorized, no layman could have
> > known it.
>
> Oral tradition was not (for the most part) memorized, but acted upon.
> Judaism, then and now, deals more with practice than with theology.
Whenever
> any Jew preforms a commandment, he relys on oral tradition to tell him HOW
> to preform it. How big should a Sukkah be? What counts as Hametz
(leavened)
> which must not be around the house on the Passover? What does "write these
> words on your gates and doorposts, and tie them on your hand and between
> your eyes" mean? Almost all of the PRACTICAL dietary laws, the Sabbath
laws,
> the laws of ritual purety, and many others, are part of the oral
tradition.
> Before the Mishnah, these were not written - they were simply acted upon.
> The "common Jew", who may not have been literate, did as his father had
done
> before him, and when in doubt, turned to his local rabbi (who would have
> been a Pharisee).

Large part of Mishnah is beyond concern of laymen. I don't think the
observance was this detailed, anyway.

> > bar Sheta introduced compulsory learning of Torah for Jewish boys.
>
> Did he? What is your source for that? How was it enforced?

I don't remember out of head, but it is somewhat of common knowledge. You
may run a search in Talmud

> > I was also referring to the episode of Jesus reading in the synagogue. I
> > guess this argument goes without verification for Christian scholars.
Some
> > kind of reading was there, anyway.
> > Gospels contain the citations by supposedly knowledgeable NT personages.
> So
> > why they are distorted? Because the authoring folks relied on LXX, and
> > distorted even it as it suited them. It did not make sense to appeal
with
> > this gibberish to Jewish scholars, right? But in the Acts, these folks
> > lecture Sanhedrin with utterly distorted text. Makes any sense to you?
>
> Both the Gospels and Acts, like the HB, are NOT historically accurate
> reports of real events. They are literary descriptions of what the
aouthors
> thought should have happened. Since the Evangelists (including "Luke" who
> wrote Acts) were Greek-speaking, they used the LXX (or something like it)
> and assumed that their characters had done the same.

If LXX existed, why Josephus made a new translation, asserting there is
none?


Vadim Cherny

>
> Yigal
>
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > Vadim Cherny
> >
> >
> > > Now, that's a sweeping statement (three, in fact)! I'll stay away from
> the
> > > NT authors, but what source do you have about "common Jews", besides
the
> > NT,
> > > which clearly has an issue with Pharisees? In general, it was the
> Priestly
> > > Sadducees, who denied the validity of the "oral Torah", who were
removed
> > > from the "common people". The Pharisees were far more "connected" to
> > > "popular religion", which included the oral tradition (this does NOT
> mean
> > > that every rule recorded in the Talmud necessarily reflects 1st
century
> > > custom).
> > >
> > > Did "every Jewish boy" study Torah? That would have certainly been the
> > > ideal, but literacy was uncommon at best, including among Jews. What
all
> > > Jews DID learn, was the ORAL traditions, both as Bible-stories and as
> > rules
> > > for daily life.
> > >
> > > As far as the weekly readings: we don't really know how many Jews
> > regularly
> > > attended synagogue services. We don't really know how common the
cyclic
> > > reading of the Torah was at the time. And we have no idea what
> > "additional"
> > > readings, if any, were read. The earliest evidence we have of a
> prophetic
> > > reading after the Torah reading (what today is called the "Haftarah")
> is,
> > in
> > > fact, the story about Jesus reading in the synagogue a Nazareth in
Luke
> > > 4:16-30. (By the way, the local tradition has it, that when they
chased
> > > Jesus to "the brow of the hill upon which the city is built", and "he
> > passed
> > > through them", he actually leaped from the hill south of Nazareth all
> the
> > > way to Mt. Tabor - the hill is called Har Haqepitzah - the hill of
> > jumping.)
> > >
> > > And even assuming that most 1st century Jews attended synagogues, in
> which
> > > both the Torah and the Haftarah were regularly read, more or less as
> they
> > > are today, the Haftarot actually cover only a small selection of the
> > > Prophets, and none of the Writings. Graduates of Orthodox Jewish
> education
> > > today are notorious for NOT knowing a whole lot of Nakh (Nebiim and
> > > Ketubim).
> > >
> > > Yigal
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "VC" <vadim_lv AT center-tv.net>
> > > To: <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2004 7:50 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] OT: a link about Modern Hebrew
> > >
> > >
> > > > Dear Chris,
> > > >
> > > > Neither common Jews, nor the Nt authors were concerned with the Oral
> > > > Tradition. And Torah was studied by every Jewish boy. They were also
> > > > familiar with Tanakh from weekly readings.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Sincerely,
> > > >
> > > > Vadim Cherny
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Dear vadim,  whatever you think of yeshua of Nazeret one thing can
> be
> > > > clear,
> > > > > that his fingure pointing at the faults of the 'religious
> authorities'
> > > was
> > > > > accurate.  The working class jewish man and woman of that day
could,
> > > with
> > > > > some accuracy, be likened to the religious masses of 14th and 15
> > century
> > > > > Germany and England.  It was, to some extent, advantageous that
the
> > > > > religious authorities had carved out for themselves an element of
> > > > > exclusiveness.  So I would hesitate to call them odd Jews who did
> not
> > > know
> > > > > Tanach.  They knew what was important, they were aware of the
> > prophecies
> > > > and
> > > > > they went to the feasts.  Just as today Jews that I met in Israel
> are
> > > very
> > > > > much aware of popular thinking and feast celebrating,  but many of
> > them
> > > > find
> > > > > the oral aspect of their law-interpreting leaders a burden.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards Chris.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Surely, very odd Jews those have been. They did not know Tanakh,
> cited
> > > > > garbled quotations of the verses the should have studied in
> childhood
> > > (if
> > > > > you know about bar Sheta reforms) and were unobservant. Wishful
> > thinking
> > > > >
> > > > > Sincerely,
> > > > >
> > > > > Vadim Cherny
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Sincerely,
> > > > > Michael Abernathy
> > > > >
> > > > >
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