Biblical Hebrew Forum

["Harold R. Holmyard III" <hholmyard AT ont.com>]

Dear Patrina,

> I agree. Additionally, it would be anachronistic for Deut 16:22 to have
> been written by the same author as Genesis 28:22, for example.
>
> Deut 16:22 - Neither shall you set thee up [any] {'mastebah'} pillar;
> which YHWH your Elohim hates.
>
> Gen 28:22 - And this stone {eben}, which I have set [for] a 'matsebah',
> shall be Elohim's house: and of all that you shall give me I will surely
> give a tenth to You.
>
> It also would be a very strange thing for Joshua (who was tutored by
> Moses) to do, if he knew of/understood a divine authorship of the command
> in Deut 16:22.
>
> Josh 24:26 - And Joshua wrote these words in the book of the law of
> Elohim, and took a great stone {eben}, and set it up there under an oak,
> that [was] by the sanctuary of YHWH {bmiqdash YHWH}.
>
> 'bmiqdash YHWH' - IN the sanctuary of YHWH?

HH: This solution will not work, since Joshua was 
alive at the same time as Moses, and he was 
supposed to keep the law that Moses wrote. 
Another idea, which goes against the translations 
I just checked, is that the relative clause in 
Deut 16:22 is a restrictive clause: "And you must 
not set up a matsebah pillar that the Lord your 
God hates." So there would be the kind of pillar 
that He hates, in contrast with the kind He does 
not hate. A third possibility is that in context 
the word in Deuteronomy carried connotations of 
paganism. The previous verse suggests such a 
connotation:

Deut. 16:21 ¶ Do not set up any wooden Asherah 
pole beside the altar you build to the LORD your 
God,

Since the Asherah pole was associated with pagan 
idol worship, probably the matsebah pillar 
mentioned in Deut 16:22 was, too.

                                Yours,
                                Harold Holmyard
> From villandra AT austin.rr.com  Thu Jun  3 21:53:27 2004
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From: "Dora Smith" <villandra AT austin.rr.com>
To: "George F. Somsel" <gfsomsel AT juno.com>
References: <20040603.211752.-848543.2.gfsomsel AT juno.com>
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Gen 1:2
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 20:52:24 -0500
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In context, doesn't one have to insert the verb to be?   And "the wind IS
hovering over the face of the deep" doesn't make alot of sense.

How is the verb a participle?

Seriously, in answer to the original question, the creativity the authors
used in coming up with the words to these first two verses is why the great
difference in translations.   The two nouns-made-up-from-verbs for empty
void don't translate exactly into English, to begin with.   And the concept
of deep sea for primordial chaos or nothingness is half metaphor.

Yours,
Dora Smith
Austin, Texas
villandra AT austin.rr.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "George F. Somsel" <gfsomsel AT juno.com>
To: <villandra AT austin.rr.com>
Cc: <wattswestmaas AT eircom.net>; <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 8:17 PM
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Gen 1:2


> Actually, one would not translate this as "she did hover" or "she
> hovered" since it is a piel f.s. part.  Because RW.aX is a feminine noun
> with the participle in agreement with it, it would be "wind . . .
> hovering."
>
> gfsomsel
> __________
>
> On Thu, 3 Jun 2004 19:05:30 -0500 "Dora Smith" <villandra AT austin.rr.com>
> writes:
> > According to one of my Hebrew texts, it means hovering, as in what a
> > bird
> > does over a nest.
> >
> > It says, "the root of this verb is [rosh chet pey]", meaning "hover
> > over"
> > such as a bird does over the nest.  The leter Tet indicates thius
> > verb is
> > feminine singular (she) perfect tense.  The letter "s" is a type of
> > verb
> > conjugation to be discussed later. (this always helps)  This verb
> > can
> > literally be translated as "she did hover".  The "She" of this word
> > is the
> > ruach, which is a feminine word.  While most consider teh "Spriit"
> > is a
> > "he", Biblically, it is a "she".
> >
> > Yours,
> > Dora Smith
> > Austin, Texas
> > villandra AT austin.rr.com
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "wattswestmaas" <wattswestmaas AT eircom.net>
> > To: "B-Hebrew" <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> > Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 4:59 PM
> > Subject: [b-hebrew] Gen 1:2
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Can anyone tell me please why   --  M'RaCHeFeT is so pointed (ie
> > with two
> > > segols) and presumably it's Feminine, a participle, (I only know
> > that it's
> > > Piel from Shoshan)? but its very lack of consistency in English
> > translation
> > > suggests an unusual wording for whatever the Spirit of God was
> > supposed to
> > > be doing.
> > >
> > > Thanking you richly - Chris.
> > >
> > >
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