Biblical Hebrew Forum

["UUC" <unikom AT paco.net>]

Dear Liz,

Not to delve in the correct translation of every word, here it is:

10. He has bared his holy arm before the eyes of all the nations.
All the ends of the earth have seen it! -- the saving power of our God!
11. Depart! Depart! Get out from there!
Touch no unclean thing.
Get out from the midst of it! Purify yourselves,
you who carry YHWH's clei (earthen vessels, or weapons).

prepare to be the holy warriors, in a sense


Isaiah is comprised of many themes, with various interpolations. That he
speaks about Cyrus chapters ago, doesn't mean he speaks of him here. How
ouwl you weigh 52:13-15? As ugly Cyrus?


Best regards,

Vadim


> You must have a different bible from mine.
> Mine says:
> 52:8 The sound of your sentinels (O Zion)!  They've lifted a voice!
> As one they've rejoiced in song!
> For every eye shall see YHWH's return to Zion.
> 9. Burst forth in song! O ruins of Jerusalem
> For YHWH has comforted his people. He has redeemed Jerusalem.
> 10. He has bared his holy arm before the eyes of all the nations.
> All the ends of the earth have seen it! -- the saving power of our God!
> 11. Depart! Depart! Get out from there!
> Touch no unclean thing.
> Get out from the midst of it! Purify yourselves,
> you who carry YHWH's vessels.
> 12. For you will not go out in haste,
> and you will not go out in flight.
> For YHWH will walk before you,
> The God of Israel will be your rear guard.
>
> This is the return of the temple vessels.
> They are leaving Babylon and the temple of Marduk
> and traveling across the highway that is prepared in
> the desert and going to Zion. This is a physical return
> of YHWH to the temple of Zion, it is a physical return
> before every eye. It is not a metaphysical or spiritual
> return, but a return that every eye has seen.
> It is also a recapitulation of the Exodus from Egypt.
> In the Egyptian Exodus they went out in haste, they fled,
> this is a measured orderly going out, since it is sanctioned
> by Cyrus and there is no fear of his changing his mind.
> As in the Egyptian Exodus, YHWH walks before and behind.
> This was the whole purpose of Cyrus' coming. He came to
> rebuild the Jerusalem and Judah and YHWH's temple, and
> it was fulfilled. That is why Isaiah refers to Cyrus as the Messiah,
> he has restored the status quo anti.
> Read my article Cyrus the Messiah?
> To fail to understand this is to fail to understand the whole book
> of Isaiah.
> Best,
> Liz
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org
> > [mailto:b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of UUC
> > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:48 PM
> > To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
> > Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Isaiah 53 read within the book as a whole
> >
> > Dear Liz,
> >
> > Is52:11 has nothing to do with the holy vessels.
> > clei is earthenware, cheap and unimportant. In this context,
> > clei is weapons of the Almighty. Military connotation is
> > evidenced by the next verse, assuring of the divine help.
> >
> > But anyway, I don't take Prophets and Writings as you seems
> > to do, as chronologic record. They are not.
> >
> >
> > > In Isaiah 52 we read of the temple vessels being brought
> > back to Zion.
> > > In Ezra we again read of the temple vessels being counted out by
> > > Cyrus. Are you saying they were never returned? I don't read the
> > > return of the vessels as a prophesy but rather as something
> > that was
> > > taking place before the eyes of the prophet and of all the world.
> > > So, on what basis do you say that they weren't returned?
> > > There is, in fact, no actual mention in Ezra of the vessels
> > actually
> > > being placed in the temple, but that seems a flimsy basis to assume
> > > that they weren't returned.
> > > I view the return of the vessels as the physical embodiment
> > of YHWH's
> > return
> > > to Zion. It is not just the rebuilding of the temple and the
> > > restoration
> > of
> > > the people and the vessels to it, but really the restoration of YHWH
> > himself
> > > to his temple
> > > and to his city that makes Cyrus the Messiah. This was
> > fullfilled. The
> > > promise is laid out in Isaiah 40 and its fulfillment is described in
> > Isaiah
> > > 52.
> > > See my article "Cyrus the Messiah? The Historical
> > Background of Isaiah
> > > 45:1"  Harvard Theological Review 95 (2002): 373-393.
> > > Liz
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org
> > > > [mailto:b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of UUC
> > > > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 11:42 AM
> > > > To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
> > > > Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Isaiah 53 read within the book as a whole
> > > >
> > > > Dear Liz,
> > > >
> > > > We have predictions in Is52, and then a person appears
> > executed. He
> > > > didn't fulfill the prophet's expectations.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Best regards,
> > > >
> > > > Vadim
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Why do you say the predictions of the previous chapters
> > > > were unfulfilled?
> > > > > Liz
> > > > > You wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dear David,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >To this I would insist we add that
> > > > > > any ?final reading| must make sense within the book read as a
> > > > > > whole.< Actually, I suggest that Isaiah 53 was
> > interpolated by a
> > > > > > hand attempting to imitate Isaiah' and Job's style to explain
> > > > > > why the prophecy of the previous
> > > > > > chapter(s) was unfulfilled. So 53 doesn't fit semantically by
> > > > > > definition.
> > > > >
> > > > >
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