Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Dave Washburn <dwashbur AT nyx.net>]

Well, I'm using Linux (Red Hat 8.0) and the Hebrew looks just fine here.  I'm 
not sure what it would take to type in it, but it would only take me about a 
day to figure it out.

On Monday 20 January 2003 22:41, Peter Kirk wrote:
> Well, if there is a consensus apart from me not to use
> transliteration...
>
> A Hebrew Unicode font, Ezra SIL, is already available free from
> www.sil.org. (Do not confuse with the older SIL Ezra, which is not
> Unicode.) Ezra SIL works well at least with the following Microsoft
> software: Word 2000/2002 on Windows 95+; and most applications on
> Windows 2000 and XP. Keyboard utilities are provided as part of the
> package. Note that the instructions do not mention Windows 95/98/ME but
> the package should work with some minor limitations, at least with Word
> 2000/2002, if the optional Wordlink extension for Keyman is installed -
> a free download from www.tavultesoft.com.
>
> And actually the standard built-in Microsoft fonts, Times New Roman,
> Courier New etc, properly support Unicode Hebrew if unpointed, and with
> vowel points and dagesh except that holem is misplaced; no cantillation
> marks. But the letter shapes are not to everyone's taste.
>
> But the question still remains, when will it be possible to use such a
> font on this list? I suspect we will have to wait for adequate Unicode
> Hebrew support on Mac, Linux and other systems. The Mac may have its
> advantages for the deeper levels of language work but it has sure lost
> any advantage it once had for display of scripts. But perhaps we can try
> including a few Hebrew passages along with transliterations for those
> who can't read, that is, those whose mail programs can't read the Hebrew
> script. For example: the first word in the Hebrew Bible is בְּרֵאשִׁית
> B.:R")$IYT. That appears on my screen correctly (in Windows 2000),
> though in very ugly Courier New fixed space Hebrew. What does it look
> like to others, and in what systems?
>
> Peter Kirk
> peter.r.kirk AT ntlworld.com
> http://web.onetel.net.uk/~peterkirk/
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:b-hebrew-
> > bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Info
> > Sent: 21 January 2003 07:19
> > To: Ken Penner; 'Biblical Hebrew'
> > Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] RE: Transliteration Schemes
> >
> > This is to answer Ken Penner's rhetorical question as to "when can we
> > begin
> > to use Unicode on B-Hebrew?"
> > My answer is within a few month. Those who purchase now a new
>
> electronic
>
> > edition of "JPS Hebrew-English TANAKH, electronic edition" (available
> > exclusively from my www.eBookShuk.com ) will get this functionality as
>
> a
>
> > free upgrade.
> > Using Unicode fonts there was no way to typeset such complex book as
>
> this.
>
> > Now, we are in the process of re-mapping of our Hebrew Hadassah fonts
>
> for
>
> > Unicode to allow editable copy-and-paste functionality as well as
>
> search
>
> > in
> > B-Hebrew using free Adobe Acrobat (ME).
> > However, I have to say that JPS Hebrew-English TANAKH has in some ways
> > better functionality then Unicode--using which, by the way, one still
> > won't
> > be able to properly set fully contillated text in any know to Mr.
>
> Penner
>
> > word-processor--i.e. Graphics Select Tool, using which one can copy a
> > glyph
> > or a page of perfectly formatted B-Hebrew text into virtually any word
> > processor.
> > By the way, for such a wonderful bunch of people that subscribe to B-
> > Hebrew
> > list, I make give 20% off Scholar PDF edition of "JPS Hebrew-English
> > TANAKH", if a member of the list will make a purchase by the end of
>
> this
>
> > month; to get this discount, use code "JPS".
> >
> > Alexander Gendler
> > www.eBookShuk.com
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ken Penner" <pennerkm AT mcmaster.ca>
> > To: "'Biblical Hebrew'" <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> > Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 1:39 PM
> > Subject: RE: [b-hebrew] RE: Transliteration Schemes
> >
> > > I much prefer the square script over transliteration (it only took
>
> about
>
> > > an hour of concentrated effort to learn). But despite my
>
> supervisor's
>
> > > disapproval, I used transliteration when I wrote my M.A. (on Hebrew
> > > poetry), for typographic reasons. To justify this choice , I noted
>
> that
>
> > > four out of five scholars I examined used transliteration. Notable
> > > heavyweights included O'Connor (Hebrew Verse Structure) and Watson
> > > (Classical Hebrew Poetry). Puech's Croyance is another monument
>
> using
>
> > > transliteration.
> > >
> > > But now with the advent of excellent right-to-left functionality in
>
> a
>
> > > mainstream word processor, browser, and emailer, the typographic
>
> reason
>
> > > has been eliminated.
> > > My question now is, when can we begin to use Unicode on B-Hebrew?
> > >
> > > Ken Penner, McMaster/DSS http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PennerThesis
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > b-hebrew mailing list
> > > b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
> > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > b-hebrew mailing list
> > b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew
>
> _______________________________________________
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-- 
Dave Washburn
http://www.nyx.net/~dwashbur
One psychiatrist to the other when they meet in an elevator:
"You're fine, how am I?"
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Matthew Anstey" >
> Regarding transliteration, I am curious if anyone has found the
> transliterated Hebrew database in Bibleworks 5.0 to be useful. I am the
> copyright holder of it (parts thereof to be exact). It took a lot of
> work. I am in the process of producing a different transliteration based
> on a better phonological analysis of BH.

I think it's better than the transliteration scheme currently being used on 
this list. At least you can
sound out the words in your scheme. But you have to learn what your extra 
symbols mean. And it wouldn't be
easy to compose in that font (we'd have to memorize a new keyboard). I have 
only looked at your font out
of curiosity, with the Hebrew text open at the same time. I've never tried to 
read it alone.

Perhaps my situation is rare, but I started learning Hebrew and Greek at the 
same time, my junior year in
college. I was glad that I learned both alphabets and not transliterated 
words. Sometimes It was hard
enough to keep the vocabulary of the two languages straight, especially when 
I was memorizing words by
sound and not looking at the words. When I would review words in my mind by 
sound, I sometimes mixed up
Greek sounds with Hebrew sounds. It would help to picture the word in my 
mind, to remember which alphabet
I was using. For example, whether the word was Greek with a chi or a Hebrew 
word with the cheth. (I wish I
could have just written those two letters in their original script.)

When one professor asked us to use Lambdin's Introduction to Biblical Hebrew, 
I was lost at first, because
he starts out with transliterating sounds before introducing the Hebrew 
alphabet. For me it meant learning
basically 3 new languages at the same time: Greek, Hebrew, and transliterated 
Hebrew.

While my computer runs Windows ME, and may not be able to handle Unicode, if 
I remember correctly, I would
rather guess at a few letters that don't display correctly on my screen than 
try to translated
transliterated Hebrew back into Hebrew, so I can figure out the root and look 
it up in a lexicon, if
necessary.

Just a few thoughts from somebody who uses Hebrew almost daily, but is really 
more fluent in Greek.

Mark Eddy
Holy Cross & St. Paul's Lutheran Churches
Golden & Bowen, IL