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There's a discussion on "defiling the hands"
(tum'at yadayim) in Mishna Kelim in which R. Akiva (early 2nd century CE)
figures prominently. In other words, those books which "defiled the hands" were
canonical, those that didn't - weren't. With no books handy, I remember that
Song of Solomon and Ecclesiastes, perhaps others, were being discussed. Talmon
is of the opinio that these books had actually already been canonized and the
discussion was pro forma. Whether this is true or not, it means that by the erly
second century, all the books of the Tanakh had been canonized, and they are all
mentioned in the Baraitha from B.T. Baba Bathra 14b, which dates, according to
what I have read, from the last quarter of the second century. This Baraitha
states the tripartite division of the Tanakh, but Latter Prophets and Writngs
are in a different order.
Josephus is not 1005 clear on what books he
considered canonized, though he is often adduced.
As for Qumran, I'm not up to date. Though all the
Biblical books were found there, others were as well (Community Rule, Damascus
Covenant, etc.), so there's no cleari ndication, as far as I know, as to which
books were actually considered canonized there. But please correct me if I'm not
up to date. Last I heard, Daniel existed in papyrus but not on leather, perhaps
indicating that it wasn't considered canonized.
That's why I didn't write that the books of the
Tanakh had been canonized by the first century CE, and stuck with the more
certain second century date.
Any comments?
--------------
Jonathan D. Safren
Dept. of
Biblical Studies
Beit Berl College
Beit Berl Post Office
44905
Israel
"sha'alu shelom yerushalayim yishlayu kol
'ohavayikh"
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 2:23
AM
Subject: Re: The OT? - evidence for canon
of Hebrew Scriptures by DSS and Josephus
Shalom b-hebrew,
Thank you Jonathan, this was a nice
post, I have one point I would like to add
about the time of the setting of
the Hebrew canon
>[JDS} It still does end with Chronicles. Only the
order of the books and
>their arrangement are different: I. Torah = 5
Books of Moses II. Prophets
>A. Former Prophets 1. Joshua <snip
list>
>[JDS] If by canon you mean Holy Scriptures, there has been
100% consensus
>among Jews since the second century CE at the
latest. The Samaritans have
>only the Torah and an entirely
different and shorter Joshua. As for laws
>or commandments, there
are none outside the Torah.
Schmuel
"since the second century CE
at the latest"
Here I would like to mention the evidence that the canon
was fixed before
the second century,
which likely refers to the Council
at Yavne (Jamnia), 90 AD, and its
aftermath.....
These are
excerpts, modified from a post on Messianic_Apologetic
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Messianic_Apologetic/message/2397
As
pointed out, the books in the Masoretic Text canon are the same as those
in
the Protestant/Baptist,etc canon, although the order of books is
different.....
====================================================================
Two
witnesses for an early Hebrew Bible canon, before Yavne, and
independent
of
the life of Jesus and the beginnings of
Christianity
A) Dead Sea
Scrolls,
B)
Josephus
================================
===========================
JOSEPHUS (additional quote section below)
(Josephus was far
removed from Yavne (Jamnia) and rabbinical council
influence after
the
little problems he had around 70 AD)
http://members.aol.com/johnprh/deuterocanonical.html
Josephus
(about 37 AD - 100 AD), who was a Jewish apologist and historian,
contended that the Old Testament Canon was closed by Ezra the
prophet.
http://www.xenos.org/essays/canon.htm
(note, written from a Christain perspective, factual material stands..)
B.
Josephus
1) He wrote twenty years before Jamnia and over 300 years
before the Talmud's
Tractate Baba
Bathra which is used to support the theory of the
three-part
development.
2) He had the actual Temple scrolls in his
possession as a gift from Titus.
We
would conclude from these facts that Josephus should be
considered
more
authoritative than the
Talmud regarding the first century view of
the canon.
3) Josephus
had the same canon we do.
4) He says there were 22 books in the canon of
the Old Testament
(see "Against Apion" 1:8,
where he mentions 5 books of Moses, 13
Prophets, and 4
Writings).
- This corresponds to our 39 books. He
recognized Jer. and Lam. as one
book, as he also
did
Judges & Ruth, I Sam. & II Sam.,
I Kings & II Kings, I Chron. & II
Chron., and Ezra and
Esther.
The 12 Minor Prophets were also
recognized as one book, called "The
Book of the
Twelve."
He included Daniel in the
Prophets instead of in the Writings, which
refutes an important part
of
the proof used to support the
three-part theory.
5) Josephus also indicates that there was
unbroken succession of prophets
from
Moses
to Malachi, and that the
histories written since Malachi were not
inspired,
because
there had been no succession
of prophets since the time of
Malachi.
====================================================================
Dead Sea Scrolls
http://www.xenos.org/essays/canon.htm
....The
canon was known and immediately recognized as scripture as it
developed in
each generation.
A. Dead Sea Scroll Evidence
1) The Manual of Discipline
& Zadokite Fragments quote from Isaiah,
Deut.,
Numbers, Leviticus, and Proverbs with the formula "It is written."
2)
Zadokite uses the formula "God said" for Isaiah, Malachi,
Amos,
Zechariah, Hosea, Deut., Numbers and
Micah.
3) The Commentary on Habakkuk indicates that it was considered to be
inspired.
4) The apocryphal books are quoted also, but never with one of
the above
formulae.
5) Conclusion: This evidence disproves the liberal
theory that the canon
was solidified in a series
of
three steps: the Pentateuch accepted as
scripture by 400 BC, the
Prophets by 200 BC, and
the
Writings not accepted until the Council
of Jamnia, in 90 AD. The Dead
Sea Scrolls quote from
all
three divisions as scripture and refer
to all three as "the Law and
the Prophets" or "Moses and
the
Prophets."
=================================================================
Miscellaneous Commentary (nicely put together by James
Patrick
Holding)
http://www.tektonics.org/tekton_05_01_01.html
Leiman
argues that Josephus' description here indicates a canon that has
been
decided upon and closed for quite some time, for he says: "...for
although
such long ages have now passed, no one has ventured either to add,
or to
remove, or to alter a syllable." Josephus' Roman readers would have
been
able to "check out" such an extraordinary claim. [Leim.CHS, 33]
The
same number of books is testified to by the Bryennius List and the
canon
of Epiphanus, both dated to near the time of Josephus; and 4 Ezra (c.
100
AD) lists 24, likely having Ruth and Lamentations separated.
[Shank.UDS,
301; Beck.OTNT, 119] (To be fair, we should note that some
would argue, as
MacDonald does [MacD.FormCB, 56], that to combine Ruth and
Judges, and
Lamentations with Jeremiah, to reach 22, is without basis,
other than
these later witnesses such as Eusebius; and that it is rather
bold to
equate Josephus' 22 books with our present OT canon. However,
MacDonald
offers no better alternative; if nothing else, we may suggest
that perhaps
Josephus' 22 books comes from the exclusion of 2 of the OT's
most disputed
books, Ecclesiastes and Song of Songs; and a bit
inconsistently, MacDonald
allows that the 24-book collection of 4 Ezra was
"likely" to have been the
same as our current OT, although he will not
state that it was definitely
those 24 books!)
Often cited as a concrete step in the OT canonization
procedure is the
Council of Jamnia. But this seems to have been more a
discussion group or
college confirming what was already known rather than
a canon council.
[Beck.OTNT, 276] In terms of the canon, the most that
Jamnia did was ratify
"what the most spiritually sensitive souls in
Judaism had been accustomed
to regard as being Scripture." [Metz.Apoc,
8]
============================================================
JOSEPHUS QUOTE
http://www.bible-history.com/JewishLiterature/JEWISH_LITERATUREThe_Old_Testament_Canon.htm
Josephus
considered the Old Testament Canon as fixed from the days of
Artaxerxes,
time of Ezra. Here are his words:
"We have but 22 books, containing the
history of all time, books that are
believed to be divine. Of these, 5
belong to Moses, containing his laws and
the traditions of the origin of
mankind down to the time of his death. From
the death of Moses to the
reign of Artaxerxes the prophets who succeeded
Moses wrote the history of
the events that occurred in their own time, in
13 books. The remaining 4
books comprise hymns to God and precepts for the
conduct of human life.
From the days of Artaxerxes to our own times every
event has indeed been
recorded; but these recent records have not been
deemed worthy of equal
credit with those which preceded them, on account of
the failure of the
exact succession of prophets. There is practical proof
of the spirit in
which we treat our Scriptures; r, although so great an
interval of time
has now passed, not a soul has ventured to add or to
remove or to alter a
syllable; and it is the instinct of every Jew, from
the day of his birth,
to consider these Scriptures as the teaching of God,
and to abide by them,
and, if need be, cheerfully to lay down his life in
their behalf."
This
testimony is of no small value. Josephus was born A.D. 37 in
Jerusalem, of
priestly aristocracy. He received an extensive education in
Jewish and
Greek culture. He was governor of Galilee and military commander
in the
wars with Rome, and was present at the destruction of Jerusalem.
These
words of Josephus are unquestionable testimony to the belief of the
Jewish
nation of Jesus' day as to what books comprised the Hebrew
Scriptures, and
that that collection of books had been completed and fixed
for 400 years
preceding his time.
(As to the "22" books of Josephus see Bible History
Online.)
==================================
GOOD SUMMARY OF MANY
ISSUES
http://www.webwitness.org.au/ss2.html
-
This fixity exactly mirrors in advance, because it relays from
the past
what was already there, the words of Christ in Matthew 5:17-19.
There was
no doubt about the Old Testament canon
<snip for
brevity>
====================================================================
Romans
3:1
What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of
circumcision?
Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were
committed the oracles
of
God.
====================================================================
>[JDS]
In the Mishna, one finds the following terms used to describe the
>Jewish Bible or Tanakh: kitvei haQodesh (Holy Scriptures), 24 Sefarim
>(the24 Books).
>
>[JDS] <snip> Testament = Covenant,
treaty. <snip>
Shalom,
Steven Avery
Queens,
NY
schmuel AT escape.com
Messianic_Apologetic-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Messianic_Apologetic/
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