Biblical Hebrew Forum

["Lisbeth S. Fried" <lizfried AT umich.edu>]

Title: RE: Monotheism was: "admittedly syncretistic..

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Rolf Furuli [mailto:furuli AT online.no]
Sent: Sat, January 26, 2002 5:00 AM
To: Biblical Hebrew
Subject: RE: Monotheism was: "admittedly syncretistic..

Dear Liz,

I appreciate that you bite, when you do it in a scolarly way, as is the case. Your respectful suggestion that I am colored by Christian conceptions is probably correct; but hardly Hellenistic conceptions (I have criticized several fundamental Christian concepts where NT and Hellenistic thoughts are fused). However, who is not colored by something, and is another coloring better that a Christian one? The main problem is not that we are colored by something, but rather that we do not realize that we are; and in addition, when we sacrifice our scholarly integrity on the altar of a certain ideology.  

[LSF] Yes, absolutely true

 

 

 The point I tried to convey to Jonathan was that atheists may be just as dogmatic and religious as fundamentalists, and that critical scholarship can be just as colored as the scholarship that use "God" as a point of reference. I think that many list members will agree in the following words of Jesus that illustrate the case (John 9:41NIV):

"Jesus said,  "If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains." 

 

[LSF] I'm guilty of sins I don't know I'm committing. If I eat pork thinking its

chicken, I'm still guilty. But maybe that's not what you mean. 

 

The Babylonian gods are clearly the invention of men, having all the degraded characteristics of men ##., while my judgement is that the God in the Genesis account is  of a completely different nature. 
 

OK, I'll bite, What is the difference between the god(s) in Genesis and the gods in the Atrahasis account?

I suggest that you read Atrahasis, Gilgamesh, and Inuma Elish again. The accounts are pure mythology. A God was slaughtered to create mankind,  

 

[LSF] So here you have a huge gigantic god, about 60 feet high scooping up a

handfull of clay, making a person, and breathing into it.

What's the difference? Why is one better than the other?

 

 there are intrigues between the gods, some cheat others, and there is fighting and streaf;  

  

[LSF]

[I admit it's easier when you're the only god in the pantheon. However, the only reason

there are no other gods in it is because YHWH is a jealous god. There would have been

problems (caused by jealousies) had there been other gods.

I think the Mesopotamian gods get along remarkably well. I was shocked when I

read the inscription of Yahdum Lim for the temple of Shamash asking all the other

gods to bless the temple to the sun god. I was completely shocked that there

was no jealousy assumed, since I'm used to a having a jealous god.

 

 the great flood was caused by Enlil simply because mankind became so numerous and made so much noise that he could not sleep. 

 

[LSF] I suppose it's a step up to want to kill everyone, babies, animals, because the

people are evil.  

In Genesis we meet YHWH who creates the universe, the earth and mankind; we learn how the first men are allowed to decide their course, how they transgress, and how the great flood is caused because  of the vicked deeds of mankind. We also learn that YHWH has a purpose, and we learn about his sublime attributes such as love and compassion. This is a completely different account than Atrahasis, and you need not read the Tanach in the light of Christian values to realize that. 

 

[LSF} But why does God promise not to bring a flood again??? It is not because he thinks

that mankind will be good now. His opinion of mankind had not changed (8:21), so why

did God promise not to destroy mankind again?

 

 

To bite back I ask a philological/linguistic question: Given the stock of phonemes and the use of consonants in Hebrew and Accadian, do you accept the popylar view that the Genesis TEHOM  is lent from Accadian TIAMAT ?

[ LSF] Philology is not my forte, I'll leave that to someone else. 

 <snip the rest for later> 

 

Best,

Liz