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b-hebrew - Re: Atonement Vs. Redemption

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  • From: Shoshanna Walker <rosewalk AT concentric.net>
  • To: "SPAWN OF A JEWISH CARPENTER: CINDY SMITH" <cms AT dragon.com>
  • Cc: b-hebrew AT franklin.oit.unc.edu
  • Subject: Re: Atonement Vs. Redemption
  • Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 22:12:18 -0400


Off list, because it was requested of us.



>Yes, it connotes freedom

Yes, freedom from slavery to sin.




That's not anywhere in the Torah.

Another thing that Christianity fabricated. Either a deliberate fabrication, or a complete and total lack of understanding of Hashem as revealed in the Torah.

Proof: Geula was always a POSITIVE thing in the Torah, something to celebrate. Something we look forward to. Something which will "fix", forever, the entire creation.

Hashem was very wise not to require of us to be obsessed with sin

Why did you do it, why the obsession?



>The Christian priest, the cross, saying "you are marked as Christ's
>own forever" is what I referred to as an invention, and not in the
>Torah, this is NOT what Hashem, Moshe or the prophets did.
>Christianity has taken many Biblical concepts and reinvented them.

Modern Jews have taken many Biblical concepts and reinvented them as

well. Christians are not unique in that category.


You have to clarify. Are you talking about modern reform and Conservative Jews? Their inventions are not considered valid by the Torah observant Jews, who have been the keepers of an unbroken tradition. We haven't invented anything, all the writings, the commentaries, the mishna, the Talmud and Kabbala, are just to elucidate, and relate the Torah and halacha to modern conditions, as the conditions change and develop. It is all contained in the Torah, it has been there all along, we have not created anything new.


>Hashem did not write the new testament, however. So this does not
>enlighten us as to the Biblical concepts of redemption and atonement.

Hashem inspired human authors to write the New Testament, so the
New Testament is the Word of God just as the Old Testament is the Word
of God. The doctrine that the Bible is the Word of God is a Tradition
of the Catholic Church.


It can be said that Hashem inspired every creative endeavor, however the degree of perfection differs. Mozart wrote that he had all this music enter and take over his brain, and that if he did not write it down, he would have gone crazy, in other words, he attributed all his work, not to himself, but to some higher being. That was also Hashem, why? Because there exists NOTHING ELSE but Hashem. But Hashem is revealed by degrees, according to the merits, of the recipient. Neither Mozart's work, nor anything but the original Torah, is a blueprint for the entire existence and the laws whereby it functions at its optimal level. You cannot compare what human beings wrote, however inspired, with what Hashem wrote.

Much of what we think is inspired by Hashem, is an illusion, if we are not assiduously obeying His laws, we will not be privy to great cosmic truths, we will not be able to transcend our own human imaginations.

Shoshanna




>Shoshanna



Cindy Smith I have further observed under the sun that
cms AT dragon.com The race is not won by the swift,
cms AT 5sc.net Nor the battle by the valiant;
cms AT romancatholic.org Nor is bread won by the wise,
Nor wealth by the intelligent,
Me transmitte sursum, Nor favor by the learned.
Caledoni! -- JPS Ecclesiastes 9:11

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