Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Shoshanna Walker <rosewalk AT concentric.net>]

> >  From a 1930 edition, "The Holy Scriptures of the Old Testament"
> > Printed in London for the British and Foreign Bible Society
>
> Is this supposed to be significant?


No - just that it was not a text with Jewish commentary, and it does 
not appear to have been translated with the commentary in mind, 
therefore I would expect the translation to be more in tune with the 
one dimensional perspective of mere linguistic dissecting, but even 
in this translation, the word Ehyeh is not past or present.


> > >Not in the Torah proper, but in 2 Sam 15:34 it's past.
> >
> >
> >
> > Not clear
>
> Oh really?  How would you translate 'ehyeh ebed abiyka wa'aniy
> m"'az


MeAz VeAta - one phrase


> in this context?


I WILL be thy servant, O King, as I have been thy father's servant hitherto

> As the NIV puts it, "I was your father's
> servant in the past" is the only possible translation.  The next
> clause makes it even clearer: "but now I am your servant."  How do
> you propose to make sense of "I will be your servant in the past"?


"MeAz VeAta"  is a common Biblical expression meaning "for always" - 
then and now, or from then until now

Breaking it up into phrases:

"Avdecha ani hamelech ehyeh" O king, I will be your servant

"Eved avicha va'ani meAz veAta"  As I've always been your father's servant

"Va'ani avdecha"  So I am your servant

> > >2 Sam 16:18
> > >appears to be present.
> >
> >
> > Why does this appear to be present?  The first translation I looked
> > at, uses it as future
>
> The translation is wrong.  The NIV errs here as well, because the
> translators miss the context: I am the servant of the one YHWH et
> al have chosen, and with him I will remain.


18:  And Hushai said to Avshalom, Nay; but whom the Lord, and this 
people, and all the men of Israel, choose, his WILL I BE, and with 
him I will abide.


Look at the next verse, 19.  Definitely future.  Do you really think 
the same word would be used in two consecutive verses to mean 
different things?


> > >See also Isaiah 3:7
> >
> > Definitely future
>
> How?  The one crying out is complaining about his present
> circumstances.  Look at the parallel clause: "I have no food in my
> house."  This is a negative clause with 'eyn describing a present
> situation, as is the previous one lo' 'ehyeh xobe$ "I am not a ruler"
> or NIV "I have no remedy."  Are we reading the same texts?


I can't imagine how you cannot see this:  "In that day he shall 
swear, saying, I WILL NOT be as a healer; for in my house is neither 
bread nor clothing; make me not a ruler of the people."

> > >; Ps 50:21;
> >
> >
> > Not used by itself
>
> This comment doesn't make sense.  The phrase is "You thought
> that I was ['ehyeh] like you."  "Not used by itself" is not only
> obscure, it's irrelevant.  'ehyeh is used here in a modal present
> sense.

Heyot Ehyeh is a phrase.  Like Hayo Haya in other places. 
Conditional.  "You had thought that I should be (or would be) like 
you"

The usage of language in Tehillim is the most difficult of all the 
Tanach to understand

> > >Ruth 2:13;
> >
> >
> > "Though I be not"
>
> Yep.  Present tense, modal.  Thank you for making my point.


You're welcome - this is only one translation

It could just as easily be "And I WILL NOT be like one of your handmaidens"

> > >Song of Songs 1:7.
> >
> >
> > "should I be"
>
> Where do you get "should"?  The clause begins with $:lfmfh,
> "why."  "Why am I like a veiled woman etc.?"  Again, even using
> your translation, we get a present tense, not a future.


"Why should I be"  - is PRESENT???

> What I see here is pure reaching.


And I see the same in your position - grasping.



> When a problem appears, it is
> written off as "not clear" or "definitely" something else without
> justification.  I have shown that 'ehyeh can be and is used in both
>
> present and past contexts, and haven't seen a refutation based on
> the actual texts yet.


You probably wouldn't listen


> I rest my case.


I would like to ask you, why/how in the original context which we 
were speaking of,  anyone would ever think in the first place to 
change the tense of Ehyeh to present tense, to mean I AM?  It's like 
you just  - made it up.

Shoshanna