Skip to Content.
Sympa Menu

msar-riders - Re: [MSAR] Guns in SAR

msar-riders@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Mounted search and rescue

List archive

Chronological Thread  
  • From: tm-fi <TFinkle@erols.com>
  • To: msar-riders@lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [MSAR] Guns in SAR
  • Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 11:17:01 -0400

(Ian, I enjoyed reading your response and share some of your view points.)

As most of you know, the East Coast is the birth place of gun control laws. In the State of Maryland, the ONLY persons on a SAR mission who (legally) carries a weapon are law enforcement personnel. Liability is "primary" factor which limits the authorization to use and carry firearms in this Country. Granting approval for any specialty unit to carry firearms requires Standards upon Standards, upon Standards.
A shotgun may be the best protection for home use, but I believe the topic was directed for MSAR use. While performing our tasks in the field our hands are busy enough already. On top of what is required for our horses, our Team members must carry the same turn out gear required of a NASAR, SARTech-II (I do not have someplace to carry a big bulky firearm). Nowadays, if some kind of shoulder weapon is carried by law enforcement personnel it is not a shotgun! The shoulder weapons that are carried by law enforcement personnel are on shoulder slings and held by hand, at all times.
Should handguns be approved for carry by MSAR personnel, the standards should similar in nature to that of law enforcement personnel. Meaning, a sidearm should be carried in a secuirty-plus type of holster that is firmly fastened to a belt or web gear (not tucked away in the bottom of a gear bag), with annual or semi annual qualifications as a strict requirement. Safety must be a paramount issue! With some MSAR riders refusing to wear helmets in the field, I do become concerned about the level of safety awareness of some people in general.

I fully agree that times are changing. There are people in this Country who enjoy killing public servants. When performing your mission on a search, does the public know you are simply a volunteer of the requesting agency? After 9-11 our mission has changed greatly. It is a known fact that law enforcement personnel are only a reactive resource and will not always be there to protect, duck tape is not the solution!

Search Team members in our area were required to attend security briefing, prior to receiving our 2003 ID cards. This briefing was based upon the recommends of the Department of Homeland Security (does that tell you something). In this area, the government considers SAR personnel as first responder resource (Yes folks, times have changed).

I was a federal law enforcement officer for 25 years and was required to carry a concealed handgun though out the United States. I retired last year and do not miss carrying that extra 3.7 pounds of extra weight everyday. Personally, I believe that authorizing "trained" law biding citizens to carry side arms is something that is needed in this Country. If a person carries a sidearm, then they need to be well trained in both the safety and proficiency of the weapon. After all, the use of firearms is agreed upon just as much as politics and religion.
The job we do as a MSAR professional can be dangerous and we could get killed in the line of duty. Until a volunteer MSAR team is authorized and has established standards for firearms carry, then I believe this topic should be set aside for fireside chats.

The views that I expressed are strictly mine and do not represent the views of my MSAR Team or other SAR organizations.

Tomi` Finkle (TROTSAR-2)
Training Officer
TROT Search & Rescue Mount Unit


Ian Vowles wrote:

To share our perspective :

The principles we have adhered to include;

a) - Of paramount importance - the requirements of the authority having
jurisdiction - and therefore our call out agency. They really do call
the "shots" !! We will abide by their requirements even if it is not our
own team or personal perspective. ( Sometimes with reservations )

b) - In the absence of an instruction to the contrary we allow /
encourage , personal choice - either open carry as per Colorado law OR
licensed concealed carry if appropriate.

c) - Personally I always carry a lightweight 22 magnum in my saddle bag
as a minimum.

d) - On extended trips into the back country I will often take the extra
weight of a 357 or 44
e) - Some of our people will carry a small 38 revolver some nothing .

However we are fortunate that the area we serve is fairly unlikely to
produce much in the way of 2 legged problems - otherwise we should carry
shotguns as standard !!

IF our members wish to carry "open" whilst in uniform we require six
monthly qualification as to the basics of gun handling / shot placement.
This is a common sense and a liability issue.

There are two principles we consider , a) The authority calling us out
has total control and b) all our teams are both background checked ( to
FBI level ) and sworn to uphold the state and federal constitution -
therefore if "George" wishes to carry a 45 ACP concealed in his
waistband - good luck - they are heavy !!
The benefit we have is that everyone is background checked to a high
level and by virtue of our encouragement all are licensed to carry
concealed which requires yet another higher level of background check (
finger prints etc ), the combination means we have a very comfortable
sense of each other and are confident in the other persons ability and
mindset.

So far , our experience would indicate that the only time the
authorities have a concern is when the resources are either unknown to
them or have an "attitude/integrity/competency" issue in which case they
don't belong in the field of operations anyway . ( NOTE - I speak for
our area only NOT other areas which may be seriously different in
demographics etc )

I would certainly listen but would have some concerns if a callout
agency was willing to use and trust our teams with the lives of others
or possible crime scenes yet decided the same people were unable to be
trusted with their own firearms - to my feeling that is contradictory
and inappropriate in a general sense ( yes there are exceptions ) .

The question should be - if I do not trust that person with a firearm in
the field why the heck do I allow them to be there ???? !!!

Happy Trails !

Ian Vowles
Commander,

Unit A - Mounted Rescue
400 Ranch Place
Pagosa Springs
Colorado 81147

Tel : 970-731-4062

http://www.mountedrescue.com




_______________________________________________
MSAR-riders mailing list
MSAR-riders@lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/msar-riders








Archive powered by MHonArc 2.6.24.

Top of Page