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Subject: Typical Girls: Women in Punk/Post-Punk/Underground Music (Circa 1975-1980s)

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  • From: mike AT appelstein.com
  • To: typicalgirls AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [TypicalGirls] Riot Grrrl book
  • Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 16:42:20 -0400

All good points. And I wasn't really thinking about the 50-copy photocopy zines, anyway; it's totally understandable that the authors would be uncomfortable seeing them anthologized or uploaded. I'm thinking more about the actual music that came out during that era - the cassettes, 7-inches and LPs. It seems to me that the songs and live shows were generally meant for larger audiences than the zines. It seems a shame to deprive today's youth of Viva Knieval, Heavens To Betsy's "Direction" single or the _A Wonderful Treat_ cassette, for instance.

(And no offense taken on the Anne Frank comparison. :))

-Mike

Quoting Kelsey Guntharp <kbguntha AT hotmail.com>:

I totally understand where you and Layla are coming from. I think that
being there in the beginning of something that was blown up and out and
under lends an attachment that would definitely lead to a desire for
privacy and personal memories.
On the other hand I also feel like there is no use in fighting the
inevitable result of this technologically advanced uh, situation. All
we can really do is try and be now. show love. play music...
i think it's great that we have such a wide variety of "news" outlets
available to us. personal, published, music, writing, art... even
medical. it's amazing and inspiring. and maybe a bit scary on many
levels... and yes, it seems like maybe people are getting caught up in
the ephemera. but shit! this is the first time we can actually FIND
some ephemera! and who knows what great directions this might take
future generations. Man, i know this is a por comparison, but Anne
Frank's Diary was meant for HER eyes only. but look what good it has
done. especially with the last generations of living witnesses dying.
anyway. i think the future of documentation is so interesting and
valuable. and scary. did i say that already? but inevitable!

~Kelsey

From: "Tobi Vail" <tobivail AT gmail.com>
Reply-To: "Typical Girls: Women in Punk/Post-Punk/Underground Music (Circa 1975-1980s)" <typicalgirls AT lists.ibiblio.org>
To: "Typical Girls: Women in Punk/Post-Punk/Underground Music (Circa 1975-1980s)" <typicalgirls AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: Re: [TypicalGirls] Riot Grrrl book
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 12:05:27 -0700

well,,,there is a difference in perspective....if you made something
when you were 18 with the intent of 5 people reading it, would you
want it on the internet when you are 38? not necsesarily...i'm not
opposed to having some of my old work out there, i'm intending to make
it available on my own terms, but i have no interest in making a
fanzine 'available for download'...to me, fanzines are all about
context....those zines were not made for everyone...they were made in
a community for a community and often that was a community of less
than 20 people...i don't find that any more elitist than going over to
someone's house for dinner rather than having a banquet. obviously the
conversations you have with your friends over dinner are going to be
different than a speech you'd give at an awards ceremony...sorry if
this is warped by my personal persepctive/neurosis, but there you have
it...i also love ephermal art and view fanzines in the same way...

the thing about saying that young people missed out because they were
young doesn't hold up because anyone can make a fanzine. those zines
aren't any better than anything anyone could make right now. that is
why the fanzine is a great art form. it's there for the taking...

time to get in the van! nice to see everyone in the bay area...hi layla!

x
tobi

ps there is actually an overabundance of academic writing on riot
grrl, but some of it is good, just search online or on jstor or
something like that and you'll get overwhelmed. it's not like people
haven't archived it and analyzed it to death already....what needs to
happen is another movement, not more documentation, well,,,,that's
more than my two cents, but there you have it

On 9/14/07, mike AT appelstein.com <mike AT appelstein.com> wrote:
I understand what you're saying, and I definitely understand the
tendency to look at the past through rose-colored glasses. But at the
same time, why should latecomers miss out on inspiring
art/music/writing just because they happened to be too young, or just
otherwise occupied, the first time? I don't think there's anything
wrong with exploring the past, especially if it helps inspire the
future. Perhaps a balance of past and present works best.

-Mike
mike AT appelstein.com
http://djearlybird.blogspot.com
http://www.youngmarblegiants.com

Quoting Layla Gibbon <lpgibbon AT yahoo.com>:

> One of the things I like about punk culture is that it
> is transient. It kind of annoys me that suddenly now
> everyone is so reverent towards the ephemera, people
> bidding on ebay for fanzines and demos that would have
> disappeared in previous generations.


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