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sm-grimoire - Re: [SM-Grimoire] Gnome section - Updating to Beta.

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Subject: Discussion of Spells and Grimoire items

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  • From: Dufflebunk <dufflebunk AT dufflebunk.homeip.net>
  • To: Hamish Greig <hgreig AT bigpond.net.au>
  • Cc: Grimoire <sm-grimoire AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [SM-Grimoire] Gnome section - Updating to Beta.
  • Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 02:19:02 -0000

I'm sorry, I'm not a redneck, nor have I been on Jerry Springer. My g/f
is not both my sister and mother...

On Wed, 2003-09-03 at 21:29, Hamish Greig wrote:
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> On Thu, 4 Sep 2003 06:57, Jason Flatt wrote:
> > On Wednesday 03 September 2003 12:31 pm, Jeremy A. Kolb wrote:
> > > I'm sorry if I offended anyone, that was not my intent. Unfortunately I
> > > haven't really been able to make that leap from user to developer with
> > > respect to smgl. In the future I would like to give back more to the
> > > community because you have all given me so much, unfortunately I have
> > > very little time to do this other then to write a few spells here and
> > > there. So for now I'm just a user with valid 'user' concerns is all. I
> > > know that developers and users often see things in a different light and
> > > because most of the people on these lists are the developers of smgl
> > > perhaps I look at things a bit differently. Anyways, I'm terribly sorry
> > > if I offended or annoyed anyone or if my take on the situation was wrong
> > > or something. Keep up the good work.
> > >
> > > Jeremy
> >
>
> STOP APOLIGISING FOR ME !!!
> (Shouting and !!! intended)
> Everything I said I meant. Just don't mistake my lack of patience for
> intentional abuse.
> We are losing developers at the rate of one per month. For the simple
> reason
> that we are already undermanned and overworked.
> This was one of my primary reasons for suggesting we remove devel grimoire
> from easy public access. We don't have the man power to efficiently manage
> the full three grimoire structure, removing devel from public access allows
> us to
> a) Fix bugs straight in test (like we always should have been)
> b) speed up the stable release cycle.
> c) decrease guru's workload by only having to look at 2 versions of any
> spell.
> d) get knowledgeable people (guru's) more directly involved with the users.
> Guru's are now interacting more directly with the users ( or should be if
> they are fixing bugs in test grimoire)
> e) stop us chasing our own tails in the devel grimoire trying to fix bugs
> caused by incompatibilities with software major version updates, only to
> start from scratch when the next major update went in. Now we have a small
> buffer zone to test these major things without breaking too much.
> Now the reason I shout and use !!! is not because i am actually angry but
> because no-one listens. (maybe exasperation is a good description)
> We/ I suggested this and took the time to discuss it for almost a month
> before
> the change was actually made. I emailed 40 developers and got responses
> from
> only 5 (truly pathetic), I moved it to the mail lists and got no extra
> discussion, I talked on IRC and got no negative feedback or comments. Now
> to
> me that means 90 % agreed with the proposal.
> AS i see it now it is quite simple.
> a) if something has a stable release that works we support it.
> b) if (due to compiler upgrade or software incompatibility) a stable
> release
> gets broken and a beta/alpha release is the fix then we will use it.
> c) pre-stable releases are a different issue, if software hasn't hit the
> magic
> 1.X.X release then we will use whichever one is the best for us, whether it
> is 0.1 or 0.99
> d) if you want the absolute cutting edge nothing is stopping you. You can
> manually change details or submit unstable spells to devel via whatever
> method you have (cvs, perforce, bugzilla)
> I don't think we should be wasting our time with unstable releases IF the
> software has a stable alternative that works.
> Now if we need to revisit the issue and find some better development plan
> PLEASE start discussing it. I like open discussion, i don't like moaning
> and
> groaning after an uncontested change has been made. If you think the
> current
> approach is wrong then offer an alternative.
>
> And now to test if anyone has actually read this ...
> " I had sex with you girlfriend/ wife/ mother/ sister last night and she is
> dynamite in bed"
> Thankyou
>
>
> > I used to think that anyone who showed their face more than a few times in
> > any of the public forums should be actively recruited to join and help
> > out.
> > Then it occurred to me that if we recruited all of the users who spoke
> > up,
> > we wouldn't have any users except those we never hear from. There are
> > probably a half-dozen to a dozen users I could name off the top of my head
> > who are not developers, but who are fairly regular in the public forums.
> >
> > I believe the SMGL developer community benefits greatly from the input
> > from
> > those users. Bugs are found and fixed because of feedback from users.
> > Features are added or removed because of feedback from users.
> >
> > I believe the Source Mage users do give back to the community by providing
> > valuable feedback as to how and what the distribution is doing, and I
> > wouldn't want to take that away from anyone.
> >
> > Hamish was probably feeling like he was talking to the wind. I saw him
> > post a couple of times before, and it did seem like no one was paying
> > attention. He was probably just a little frustrated and you got the
> > back-lash. I'm sure he didn't mean anything by it.
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