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Subject: Discussion of Spells and Grimoire items
List archive
Re: [SM-Grimoire] Gnome section - Updating to Beta.
- From: Hamish Greig <hgreig AT bigpond.net.au>
- To: sm-grimoire AT lists.ibiblio.org
- Subject: Re: [SM-Grimoire] Gnome section - Updating to Beta.
- Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 11:29:53 +1000
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On Thu, 4 Sep 2003 06:57, Jason Flatt wrote:
> On Wednesday 03 September 2003 12:31 pm, Jeremy A. Kolb wrote:
> > I'm sorry if I offended anyone, that was not my intent. Unfortunately I
> > haven't really been able to make that leap from user to developer with
> > respect to smgl. In the future I would like to give back more to the
> > community because you have all given me so much, unfortunately I have
> > very little time to do this other then to write a few spells here and
> > there. So for now I'm just a user with valid 'user' concerns is all. I
> > know that developers and users often see things in a different light and
> > because most of the people on these lists are the developers of smgl
> > perhaps I look at things a bit differently. Anyways, I'm terribly sorry
> > if I offended or annoyed anyone or if my take on the situation was wrong
> > or something. Keep up the good work.
> >
> > Jeremy
>
STOP APOLIGISING FOR ME !!!
(Shouting and !!! intended)
Everything I said I meant. Just don't mistake my lack of patience for
intentional abuse.
We are losing developers at the rate of one per month. For the simple reason
that we are already undermanned and overworked.
This was one of my primary reasons for suggesting we remove devel grimoire
from easy public access. We don't have the man power to efficiently manage
the full three grimoire structure, removing devel from public access allows
us to
a) Fix bugs straight in test (like we always should have been)
b) speed up the stable release cycle.
c) decrease guru's workload by only having to look at 2 versions of any spell.
d) get knowledgeable people (guru's) more directly involved with the users.
Guru's are now interacting more directly with the users ( or should be if
they are fixing bugs in test grimoire)
e) stop us chasing our own tails in the devel grimoire trying to fix bugs
caused by incompatibilities with software major version updates, only to
start from scratch when the next major update went in. Now we have a small
buffer zone to test these major things without breaking too much.
Now the reason I shout and use !!! is not because i am actually angry but
because no-one listens. (maybe exasperation is a good description)
We/ I suggested this and took the time to discuss it for almost a month
before
the change was actually made. I emailed 40 developers and got responses from
only 5 (truly pathetic), I moved it to the mail lists and got no extra
discussion, I talked on IRC and got no negative feedback or comments. Now to
me that means 90 % agreed with the proposal.
AS i see it now it is quite simple.
a) if something has a stable release that works we support it.
b) if (due to compiler upgrade or software incompatibility) a stable release
gets broken and a beta/alpha release is the fix then we will use it.
c) pre-stable releases are a different issue, if software hasn't hit the
magic
1.X.X release then we will use whichever one is the best for us, whether it
is 0.1 or 0.99
d) if you want the absolute cutting edge nothing is stopping you. You can
manually change details or submit unstable spells to devel via whatever
method you have (cvs, perforce, bugzilla)
I don't think we should be wasting our time with unstable releases IF the
software has a stable alternative that works.
Now if we need to revisit the issue and find some better development plan
PLEASE start discussing it. I like open discussion, i don't like moaning and
groaning after an uncontested change has been made. If you think the current
approach is wrong then offer an alternative.
And now to test if anyone has actually read this ...
" I had sex with you girlfriend/ wife/ mother/ sister last night and she is
dynamite in bed"
Thankyou
> I used to think that anyone who showed their face more than a few times in
> any of the public forums should be actively recruited to join and help out.
> Then it occurred to me that if we recruited all of the users who spoke up,
> we wouldn't have any users except those we never hear from. There are
> probably a half-dozen to a dozen users I could name off the top of my head
> who are not developers, but who are fairly regular in the public forums.
>
> I believe the SMGL developer community benefits greatly from the input from
> those users. Bugs are found and fixed because of feedback from users.
> Features are added or removed because of feedback from users.
>
> I believe the Source Mage users do give back to the community by providing
> valuable feedback as to how and what the distribution is doing, and I
> wouldn't want to take that away from anyone.
>
> Hamish was probably feeling like he was talking to the wind. I saw him
> post a couple of times before, and it did seem like no one was paying
> attention. He was probably just a little frustrated and you got the
> back-lash. I'm sure he didn't mean anything by it.
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-
Re: [SM-Grimoire] Gnome section - Updating to Beta.
, (continued)
- Re: [SM-Grimoire] Gnome section - Updating to Beta., Robin Cook, 09/01/2003
- Re: [SM-Grimoire] Gnome section - Updating to Beta., Geoffrey Derber, 09/01/2003
-
Re: [SM-Grimoire] Gnome section - Updating to Beta.,
Dufflebunk, 09/01/2003
-
Re: [SM-Grimoire] Gnome section - Updating to Beta.,
Geoffrey Derber, 09/01/2003
-
Re: [SM-Grimoire] Gnome section - Updating to Beta.,
Hamish Greig, 09/01/2003
-
Re: [SM-Grimoire] Gnome section - Updating to Beta.,
Jeremy A. Kolb, 09/01/2003
-
Re: [SM-Grimoire] Gnome section - Updating to Beta.,
Hamish Greig, 09/02/2003
-
Re: [SM-Grimoire] Gnome section - Updating to Beta.,
Seth Woolley, 09/03/2003
- Re: [SM-Grimoire] Gnome section - Updating to Beta., Jeremy A. Kolb, 09/03/2003
- Re: [SM-Grimoire] Gnome section - Updating to Beta., Jason Flatt, 09/03/2003
- Re: [SM-Grimoire] Gnome section - Updating to Beta., Hamish Greig, 09/03/2003
- Re: [SM-Grimoire] Gnome section - Updating to Beta., Duane Malcolm, 09/03/2003
- Re: [SM-Grimoire] Gnome section - Updating to Beta., Dufflebunk, 09/03/2003
- Re: [SM-Grimoire] Gnome section - Updating to Beta., Jose Bernardo Silva, 09/04/2003
- Re: [SM-Grimoire] Gnome section - Updating to Beta., Ladislav Hagara, 09/04/2003
- Re: [SM-Grimoire] Gnome section - Updating to Beta., Hamish Greig, 09/04/2003
- Re: [SM-Grimoire] Gnome section - Updating to Beta., Jason Flatt, 09/04/2003
-
Re: [SM-Grimoire] Gnome section - Updating to Beta.,
Seth Woolley, 09/03/2003
- Re: [SM-Grimoire] Gnome section - Updating to Beta., Eric Sandall, 09/04/2003
- Re: [SM-Grimoire] Gnome section - Updating to Beta., Christoph Steckelberg, 09/04/2003
- Re: [SM-Grimoire] Gnome section - Updating to Beta., Arwed von Merkatz, 09/04/2003
- Re: [SM-Grimoire] Gnome section - Updating to Beta., Christoph Steckelberg, 09/04/2003
-
Re: [SM-Grimoire] Gnome section - Updating to Beta.,
Hamish Greig, 09/02/2003
-
Re: [SM-Grimoire] Gnome section - Updating to Beta.,
Jeremy A. Kolb, 09/01/2003
-
Re: [SM-Grimoire] Gnome section - Updating to Beta.,
Hamish Greig, 09/01/2003
-
Re: [SM-Grimoire] Gnome section - Updating to Beta.,
Geoffrey Derber, 09/01/2003
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