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  • From: "Scott Pittman" <scott@permaculture.org>
  • To: "'permaculture'" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] North American Permaculture Convergence thisSeptember! Save the dates!
  • Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2016 21:39:48 -0600

Please give me a break! The discussion that transpired from my initial
email has nothing to do with my concern about calling a conference on
regenerative future a convergence. I know that email is not the ideal forum
for discussion but I know that my writing is not that difficult to
comprehend. Mostly it feels like some game of who is the most "politically
correct" and I don't really give a shit about winning that title.

Let's say that instead of a "permaculture convergence" we were talking about
a "family reunion". Everyone is excited about the reunion; it is a time to
share our similar experiences and to heal wounds from the past and to
explore new possibilities of our common interests. Unfortunately one family
decides that the "Jones" family reunion should include any other family that
begins with "J", so they go on the internet and broadcast far and wide that
the Jones reunion is now the "J" reunion. Needless to say many of the Jones
are upset because they have nothing to say about the reunion at this time
because it has been co-opted by one family of Jones who changed the whole
program. It has nothing to do with any animosity toward the "J's" it has to
do with common agreements about what the "Jones Reunion" means.

I am not particularly interested in integrating with every "J" in the phone
book, I don't care if we have in common a love of trees, or grass, or solar
housing. I don't care if a select few elders of the Jones clan supported
the "J" reunion instead of the "Jones" reunion.

So, of course we need to work with other groups and need to network with
them, if they are an ethical group and I mean in the sense of the
permaculture ethics. We need all hands on deck if we are to survive the
payback of our hubristic behavior; that doesn't mean that we don't need to
occasionally get together as the permaculture family for a little sit down
and reassessment.

Now before someone named "Jones" out there writes an excoriating response to
my misuse and miss characterization of the Jones of the world, please accept
my apology, it is not personal it could have been Smith, Swartz, Pittman or
many other names.

Also, before we wax too poetic about all of the wisdom and contributions of
the millennial clan and the other younger members of the permaculture
collective, lets have another look at the 7 day PDC, or the franchise model
of permaculture, or the big is beautiful school of food production, not to
leave out the idiotic idea of selling and joining forces with Walmart in
order to have more clout in the drive for mainstream acceptance. Each and
every one of the example listed above have happened and are still happening
as half baked ideas. That is not to say that change should not happen over
time as we observe and interact with our environment and each other. As we
think of the new paradigm let us not forget that we can't drag the
shibboleths from the old and expect new results within the new paradigm. I
personally don't think that we are any where near a paradigm shift as long
as we are still bogged down in an economic system (Capitalism) that cannot
make the connection of world poverty, war, imprisonment, disease, climate
change, overpopulation, malnutrition and etc. to greed.

I don't believe that permaculture design ideas were carved in stone tablets
as they were dictated by Bill Mollison disguised as a burning bush. Nor do I
think that new ideas, just because they are new, should be embraced over old
ideas that still remain the best solutions. Much of the new ideas I hear
lately are either old ideas dressed up in new clothes or are "a one step
solution to a two step ditch".

I have absolute confidence that I have clarified my position and there need
be no more discussion over this reunion that has morphed into a political
party.

Best Regards,

Scott Pittman - Elder Permaculturalist (some might say over the hill Permie)



"Death is not the greatest loss in life, the greatest loss is what dies
inside us while we live." - Norman Cousins

-----Original Message-----
From: permaculture [mailto:permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf
Of Koreen Brennan
Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2016 6:27 PM
To: permaculture
Subject: Re: [permaculture] North American Permaculture Convergence
thisSeptember! Save the dates!

Interesting discussion! The principle "Integrate, don't segregate"
resonates very deeply with me. Permaculture is whole systems design. As
such, it can (and in my view, should) integrate any tool or other system
that works to improve the overall design and keep it regenerative. It can
take skill to decipher when to use what tool for sure, but I welcome the
idea of integrating all great ideas and discoveries into a whole systems
design toolbox.

On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 8:04 PM, Lawrence London <lfljvenaura@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 5:41 PM, Georg Parlow <g.parlow@gmx.at> wrote:
>
> > 'Reinventing Organizations' can be downloaded as an ebook on
> > pay-what-feels-right from http://www.reinventingorganizations.com <
> > http://www.reinventingorganizations.com/>, or ordered in print at any
> > bookstore (ISBN 978-2960133509)
> > It does not contain a simple recipe for our task at hand. But it can
> help
> > a lot in the mentioned 'some serious training in building collaborative
> > networks, mentoring, and working with our inner process'.
> >
>
> Thanks, Georg. This would be a valuable route to follow for those
> inrterested in contributing to the future of Permaculture.
>
> an idea:
>
> 1) Research and document sources of information about Permaculture, i.e.
> "the science" of Permaculture. Make lists and put this "out there" for
> everyone to read.
> 2) Those with fixed viewpoints about Permaculture could document this, the
> whats whys and wherefores, and "put it out there"
> 3) Those with viewpoints that include serious acknowledgment of
> particularly valuable viewpoints of others or organizations could document
> this and make that available.
> Put 1,2,3 together and disseminate this body of work throughout the media
> used by the world of permaculture and through all PDC's, gatherings,
> conventions, workshops and consultations
>
>
> --
> Lawrence F. London
> lfljvenaura@gmail.com
> https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/
> https://plus.google.com/u/0/b/116100117925365792988/+Avantgeared/posts
> https://ello.co/permaculture
> https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture
> permaculture mailing list
> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
>



--
Koreen Brennan
http://www.growpermaculture.com
http://www.permacultureintl.com
http://northamericanpermaculture.org
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