permaculture

[Joel Glanzberg <patternmind@gmail.com>]

My Dear Friends,

The Problem is the Solution.

In my understanding, Permaculture is observing what IS in order to
appreciate the opportunities reality presents and designing a strategy to
develop those opportunities.

What is the juicy opportunity presented by differing ideas about PC?
...about what a gathering should be and who should be there?
...of people feeling left out of the planning process when they feel like
they should have been included?
...of a difficult founder?
...of a self-organizing organization?
...of a critical point in history?
...add your own "problem" here?

As Audrey Lourde reminds us: "You cannot dismantle the master's house using
the master's tools." All tools control us in certain ways. We need to be
careful what tools we decide to use, when, and how.

Identifying and fixing problems works in machines but not a living world.
Appreciating opportunities does.

Thank you all for your time, caring and passion.

respectfully,
Joel Glanzberg

On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 9:39 PM, Scott Pittman <scott@permaculture.org>
wrote:

> Please give me a break!  The discussion that transpired from my initial
> email has nothing to do with my concern about calling a conference on
> regenerative future a convergence.  I know that email is not the ideal
> forum
> for discussion but I know that my writing is not that difficult to
> comprehend.  Mostly it feels like some game of who is the most "politically
> correct" and I don't really give a shit about winning that title.
>
> Let's say that instead of a "permaculture convergence" we were talking
> about
> a "family reunion".  Everyone is excited about the reunion; it is a time to
> share our similar experiences and to heal wounds from the past and to
> explore new possibilities of our common interests.  Unfortunately one
> family
> decides that the "Jones" family reunion should include any other family
> that
> begins with "J", so they go on the internet and broadcast far and wide that
> the Jones reunion is now the "J" reunion.  Needless to say many of the
> Jones
> are upset because they have nothing to say about the reunion at this time
> because it has been co-opted by one family of Jones who changed the whole
> program.  It has nothing to do with any animosity toward the "J's" it has
> to
> do with common agreements about what the "Jones Reunion" means.
>
> I am not particularly interested in integrating with every "J" in the phone
> book, I don't care if we have in common a love of trees, or grass, or solar
> housing.  I don't care if a select few elders of the Jones clan supported
> the "J" reunion instead of the "Jones" reunion.
>
> So, of course we need to work with other groups and need to network with
> them, if they are an ethical group and I mean in the sense of the
> permaculture ethics.  We need all hands on deck if we are to survive the
> payback of our hubristic behavior; that doesn't mean that we don't need to
> occasionally get together as the permaculture family for a little sit down
> and reassessment.
>
> Now before someone named "Jones" out there writes an excoriating response
> to
> my misuse and miss characterization of the Jones of the world, please
> accept
> my apology, it is not personal it could have been Smith, Swartz, Pittman or
> many other names.
>
> Also, before we wax too poetic about all of the wisdom and contributions of
> the millennial clan and the other younger members of the permaculture
> collective, lets have another look at the 7 day PDC, or the franchise model
> of permaculture, or the big is beautiful school of food production, not to
> leave out the idiotic idea of selling and joining forces with Walmart in
> order to have more clout in the drive for mainstream acceptance.  Each and
> every one of the example listed above have happened and are still happening
> as half baked ideas. That is not to say that change should not happen over
> time as we observe and interact with our environment and each other.  As we
> think of the new paradigm let us not forget that we can't drag the
> shibboleths from the old and expect new results within the new paradigm.  I
> personally don't think that we are any where near a paradigm shift as long
> as we are still bogged down in an economic system (Capitalism) that cannot
> make the connection of world poverty, war, imprisonment, disease, climate
> change, overpopulation, malnutrition and etc. to greed.
>
> I don't believe that permaculture design ideas were carved in stone tablets
> as they were dictated by Bill Mollison disguised as a burning bush. Nor do
> I
> think that new ideas, just because they are new, should be embraced over
> old
> ideas that still remain the best solutions.  Much of the new ideas I hear
> lately are either old ideas dressed up in new clothes or are "a one step
> solution to a two step ditch".
>
> I have absolute confidence that I have clarified my position and there need
> be no more discussion over this reunion that has morphed into a political
> party.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Scott Pittman - Elder Permaculturalist (some might say over the hill
> Permie)
>
>
>
> "Death is not the greatest loss in life, the greatest loss is what dies
> inside us while we live."  - Norman Cousins
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: permaculture [mailto:permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On
> Behalf
> Of Koreen Brennan
> Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2016 6:27 PM
> To: permaculture
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] North American Permaculture Convergence
> thisSeptember! Save the dates!
>
> Interesting discussion! The principle "Integrate, don't segregate"
> resonates very deeply with me. Permaculture is whole systems design. As
> such, it can (and in my view, should) integrate any tool or other system
> that works to improve the overall design and keep it regenerative. It can
> take skill to decipher when to use what tool for sure, but I welcome the
> idea of integrating all great ideas and discoveries into a whole systems
> design toolbox.
>
> On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 8:04 PM, Lawrence London <lfljvenaura@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 5:41 PM, Georg Parlow <g.parlow@gmx.at> wrote:
> >
> > > 'Reinventing Organizations' can be downloaded as an ebook on
> > > pay-what-feels-right from http://www.reinventingorganizations.com <
> > > http://www.reinventingorganizations.com/>, or ordered in print at any
> > > bookstore (ISBN 978-2960133509)
> > >  It does not contain a simple recipe for our task at hand. But it can
> > help
> > > a lot in the mentioned 'some serious training in building collaborative
> > > networks, mentoring, and working with our inner process'.
> > >
> >
> > Thanks, Georg. This would be a valuable route to follow for those
> > inrterested in contributing to the future of Permaculture.
> >
> > an idea:
> >
> > 1) Research and document sources of information about Permaculture, i.e.
> > "the science" of Permaculture. Make lists and put this "out there" for
> > everyone to read.
> > 2) Those with fixed viewpoints about Permaculture could document this,
> the
> > whats whys and wherefores, and "put it out there"
> > 3) Those with viewpoints that include serious acknowledgment of
> > particularly valuable viewpoints of others or organizations could
> document
> > this and make that available.
> > Put 1,2,3 together and disseminate this body of work throughout the media
> > used by the world of permaculture and through all PDC's, gatherings,
> > conventions, workshops and consultations
> >
> >
> > --
> > Lawrence F. London
> > lfljvenaura@gmail.com
> > https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/
> > https://plus.google.com/u/0/b/116100117925365792988/+Avantgeared/posts
> > https://ello.co/permaculture
> > https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture
> > permaculture mailing list
> > permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Koreen Brennan
> http://www.growpermaculture.com
> http://www.permacultureintl.com
> http://northamericanpermaculture.org
> permaculture mailing list
> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
>
> permaculture mailing list
> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
>