permaculture

[Cory Brennan <cory8570@yahoo.com>]

We let the weeds grow at our Pine Ridge garden as an experiment to get to 
know the system. Pigweed was ubiquitous. It and lambsquarters are an 
indicator of fertile soil, and took over. These plants did bring grasshoppers 
and aphids to the garden, and possibly other pests. The aphids mainly stayed 
on the lamsbquarter as a "trap crop" though. So I would have these plants in 
the garden but probably further from other plants. 

We used both of them as food, food for the pig (they love the red root), and 
compost material - they grow abundantly and quickly, easy to pull out. 
Pigweed is one of the easiest plants I"ve ever pulled out of soil. Even when 
it gets big, you can just pull a bit and it comes out with the taproot. 

Pigweed loved our three sisters corn bed, and was supposedly used  by 
indigenous people as a "fourth sister" in the three sisters guild - supposed 
to cull nutrients from subsoil. 

Pigweed is a trap crop for several "pests."  I allowed it to come up 
wherever, but when we plant again, I may let it go in one area, away from 
squash, tomato, etc, as a trap crop/fodder/compost/food. One thing none of 
the "weeds" deterred was squash bugs. They went straight for the squash.

interesting weather tidbit:
http://sharelifefarms.com/pigweed/

 
Koreen Brennan

www.growpermaculture.com
www.facebook.com/growpermaculturenow
www.meetup.com/sustainable-urban-agriculture-coalition


________________________________
 From: venaurafarm <venaurafarm@bellsouth.net>
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org> 
Sent: Monday, October 8, 2012 12:36 AM
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Bio-Control of Redroot Pigweed, amaranthus 
spinosus
 
On 10/8/2012 12:26 AM, loren luyendyk wrote:

> the leaves and seeds are not only edible but very nutritious:
>
> http://www.eattheweeds.com/amaranth-grain-vegetable-icon/
>
> perhaps the amaranth is replacing soil nutrients that are lacking.  they 
> have deep tap roots and are dynamic acculmulators:
>
> "Amaranth, also known as pigweed is another great dynamic accumulator.
> It grows well with corn, onions, pepper and eggplant.  It helps tomatoes
>   to be more resistant to harmful insects and also helps potatoes yield
> more abundantly.  It also helps loosen soil for root vegetables such as
> beets, carrots and radishes.  Since it is a weedy species, harvest it
> and keep it thinned.  It happens to produce both edible leaves and
> seeds."
>
> http://www.wildernesscollege.com/garden-companion-planting.html

Are you talking about the redroot pigweed with sharp spines all over the 
branching? There is another common (weed) amaranth that grows even 
taller and with more foliage and large amounts of seeds but no spines at 
all. The leaves are thicker and tougher than rr pigweed and lambs 
quarters. I always assumed this plant would produce seeds like quinoa an 
could be used for the same purposes in the kitchen, though I have never 
tried it. There is foxtail or wild millet too. Sesame and buckwheat are 
easily grown.




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On 10/8/2012 1:15 AM, christopher nesbitt wrote:
> Thank you for this. Its funny that aquaponics, one small practice,
> generates so much naysaying. I have seen this often, and the
> arguments all tend to be the same: its not natural, or: it cannot be
> balanced if it is not coming from soil, and: It is capital intensive.
> Thank you, Kathryn, for pointing out the obvious: aquaponics lends
> itself to extremely localized food systems. No food miles is a good
> thing.

The problem as I see it is that as far as I know you can not grow food
with the same nutritional value (vitamins, minerals, etc.) in an
aquaponic or hydroponics system as you can growing those same crops in
soil that has been properly nutrient/mineral amended and balanced.

That is what Scott is saying and I say the same. I would not hesitate to
eat food grown in an aquaponic or hydroponic system but I would not make
that my only source of food and would require that most of my food be
grown in soil, of adequate quality.

I doubt anyone is naysaying aquaponics; it has too much to offer and is
a resource truly within the realm of permaculture.

> Kathryn said: "
>> I also question whether a farm that grows in soil, but trucks in
>> all its supplies and trucks out all its produce, is  "better" than
>> someone who raises food via aquaponics in their backyard with 1/10
>> the space, 1/10 the water, 1/1000 of the petroleum, and by the
>> system  design, can't use pesticides or herbicides.

You are what you eat. In principle the aquaponics is much better from a
carbon footprint point of view and a lack of pesticide residues but a
person has to get complete nutrition. Unless I am shown otherwise I
can't see aquaponics providing all a person needed year after year, only
part of what you need. You will have to get the rest from soil grown
crops. Why can't you irrigate outdoor gardens with part or all of the
aquaculture effluent? Do both on the same site, one backs up the other,
all are "locally grown", low carbon footprint.

This is a great topic to discuss. I hope it will continue. Remember The
New Alchemy Institute, John Todd and staff? They got the ball rolling
with aquaponics.

> 1/10the water use? 1/10th the space? 1/1000th the petroleum use?
> Can't use pesticides or herbicides? That sounds pretty good, to me.
>
> Scott asked:
>> in this closed system, where does the selenium,  calcium and
>> phosphorous come from?
>
> Perhaps part of the problem you have with aquaponics, Scott, is that
> you, like many who naysay, do not understand aquaponics. The system
> is NOT closed. You are bringing food to the fish, and taking veggies
> out. That is a linear system. The only "closed" aspect is the water.
> While the water recirculates, you have inputs in feed, wether you
> make your own, raise your own or buy Purina Aquaponics Chow (which IS
> a problem), and remove herbs, veggies and fish from the system. Water
> leaves the fish tank laden with some manure, and returns filtered by
> the gravel, bacteria and plant roots, oxygenated.
>
> Amongst its many attributes, one of the ones that impresses me is
> that it is highly productive. Joel Malcolm produced over 100
> kilograms of veggies and herbs, over 50 kilograms of fish, in an area
> 4x8 meters, in six months. That is a staggering amount of food, in
> just veggies and herbs, alone. Considering the fish, thats
> fantastic.
>
> So, is it balanced? that begs the question: What are you feeding your
> fish? If the source of your fish is worms from your land, or black
> soldier fly larvae from compost from your land, or from a bug zapper
> placed over the tank, or from raised mosquito larvae, or from
> tadpoles, or from algae, or, if you are making pellets from egg, rice
> bran, coconut, moringa leaf, acai berry, noni, chicken parts
> (organically grown, and butchered on site), and the soil that comes
> from is balanced, then... the mineral content of the fish manure
> should be balanced in minerals. The mineral content of your fish dung
> is tied to the mineral content of the what you are feeding them.
>
> In an on line evening discussing aquaponics, a group of people came
> up with "decaponics", which was a series of energy and nutrient flows
> built around aquaponics. There were 10 components. As I recall, in
> our free for all design, we penned in rabbits, sheep, a piggery with
> biogas plant, ducks, vermicomposting, spirulina production, and some
> other things. I forget. I think a bug zapper was over the fish tank.
> The papers are somewhere. The point is that aquaponics can be tied
> into larger things.
>
> In a world of expanding populations, soil depletion and loss of
> farmland, NOT considering aquaponics seems to me to be discarding a
> useful tool. To me, clearly aquaponics has a role to play.

More emphasis needs to be placed on local biointensive food production
on suitable land. Aquaponics has an important place in such systems. Why
not emphasize protein production in aquaculture systems? Feed the
effluent to the gardens but retain enough to provide nutritional needs
of an aquaponic system in a greenhouse to help ensure a year-round food
supply. Valuable cash crops can be grown this way, some food, some other
(legal ones). What about growing baby ginger, galangal and turmeric in
an aquaponics system of one that uses soil constantly irrigated with
aquaponics effluent. Make sure harvested crops are clean
before using or selling them.

> Again, in a situation, like in an urban setting, or where soils are
> either depleted or contaminated, or where inadequate water is
> available to produce in soil, producing out of season veggies
> locally, either from home use or for commercial use, in a world of
> increasing costs of transported food, aquaponics has plenty to offer.
> It is not THE solution, but, in a nuanced world, it is A solution. As
> I mentioned, earlier, having a biological filter comprised of gravel,
> bacteria on the gravel, and plant roots, allows for high stocking
> densities of fish. High stocking densities of fish being filtered
> through bacterially colonized gravel, with plant roots, enables
> people to produce veggies with no petroleum miles on them, lots of
> veggies and fish, in a small area. The only cost is the initial
> energy to build the system, and the electricity to run it, and, of
> course, the energy to source your feed.

Join the compost tea list. There is much to learn on this subject
(aerobic/anaerobic/bacteria/fungi/nutrients and minerlas/etc from that
friendly commmunity. Its the compost_tea list at yahoo.
>
> As Kathryn and I have said, aquaponics is one tool to have in your
> tool kit. It is not THE answer, but it is a solution to a fairly
> large set of problems. I would not relegate soil based agriculture to
> the dust bin of history, hahahah, and I still farm a lot of land,
> over 25 acres, now, a full on food forest, with over 500 species, but
> aquaponics has huge potential, and I am looking forward to working
> with our system. I intend to add the occasional cup of compost tea to
> our system, for fungal communities.
>
> Lastly, Scott, I wasn't going to throw in mangrove. In the last 12
> years, I have done a lot of work for Fisheries Dept installing
> photovoltaic systems in seven marine protected areas. Mangrove, like
> most "edges", is very productive, in fish and crustaceans, birds.
> Apart from "coco plum", and "sea almond", not much food can grow in
> mangrove, and none can in red mangrove, which is the species of
> mangrove that grows directly in salt water, here. White mangrove and
> black mangrove prefer sandy soil. Belize has %3.4 of it's territory
> in mangrove. That is still %98.7 of its colonial spread. In Belize
> mangrove is protected. Its not really a good analogy to chinampa or
> rice paddy, as you pointed out. I am not sure why you brought it up.

Read my reference to what is being done with sustainable mangrove
forestry in Eritrea. It fits in perfectly with local sustainable
food/fiber/livestock feed systems with stacked functions.

LL