permaculture

[Cory Brennan <cory8570@yahoo.com>]

It is a favorite treat of pigs. Good nutrition.
 



________________________________
 From: Jennifer Nazak <jnazak@yahoo.com>
To: "permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org> 
Sent: Sunday, October 7, 2012 4:52 PM
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Bio-Control of Redroot Pigweed, amaranthus 
spinosus
 
Me too Georg. The young leaves are a nice addition to salads, scrambled eggs 
etc. The seeds are (as I understand it) the wild version of amaranth, a tasty 
grain. Loved by my housemate's pet bird! And loved by humans too, amaranth 
is. I haven't got around to it yet but I do plan on experimenting with 
amaranth pancake recipes and such.

If for some reason my land was just toooo overrun with it, I would still not 
pull it out; but rather, would just "chop and drop" -- leave the roots 
intact; let the stems and leaves decay on the ground as mulch. This is one 
method to give nutrients back to the soil while avoiding disturbing the 
soil's structure. I like to leave the roots in place as "underground mulch".

art by jenny nazak
miniatures & murals
jennynazak.wordpress.com

"Night is a dead monotonous period under a roof; but in the open world it 
passes lightly, with its stars and dews and perfumes, and the hours are 
marked by changes in the face of Nature." 
-- Robert Louis Stevenson, Travels with a Donkey

Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2012 15:53:31 +0200
From: georg parlow <g.parlow@gmx.at>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Bio-Control of Redroot Pigweed,    amaranthus
    spinosus
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
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my personal strategie is eating them. 

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Subject: Re: [permaculture] pc aquaponics
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I too have serious misgivings about aquaponics.  It is always presented as
some kind of perpetual motion machine that provides for all its needs within
the system, which I doubt.  I also do not believe that it could possible
have the nutrients necessary for providing wholesome and nutritious
foodstuff.  We are talking about the primary nutrient source being fish dung
in this closed system, where does the selenium, calcium and phosphorous come
from?  The co-evolution of plants with soil organisms and minerals has
created the human nutrition story and without soil I think the actual
nutrient content will be woefully inadequate.

I would love to see some data on nutrient content of hydroponic vs soil
based vegetables.

I would also point out that both the rice paddy system and chinampa systems
are soil based systems with a lot of water to maintain growth they are not
by any means hydroponic or aquaponic. You might also throw in the fast
disappearing mangroves as an example of aquaponics but again you would be
wrong.

Scott Pittman
Permaculture Institute USA



"Another world is not only possible, she is on her way.
On a quiet day, I can hear her breathing."
~Arundhati Roy

-----Original Message-----
From: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of christopher
nesbitt
Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2012 2:32 PM
To: permaculture
Subject: Re: [permaculture] pc aquaponics

Hi Steve,

I have to disagree with your assessment that aquaponics is "working against
nature". Perhaps you do not understand that aquaponics is using hydroponic
grow beds to filter and oxygenate water in high stocking density
aquaculture, in a recirculating system?

The concept of plants and water is not a new concept. While aquaponics uses
pumps and pipes and electricity, it is not that different to the concept of
paddy rice, or to the chinampa system practiced in Central Mexico by the
Aztecs, which are both time honored and highly productive. Nobody would
consider either of these systems to be "working against nature". Are
electric lights working against nature? Should we return to oil lamps?

One of the limiting factors in aquaculture is the stocking density. Putting
too much fish in the water can result in build up of ammonia and a bloom of
algae, resulting in depletion of oxygen and death of your fish. This is
called eutrophication. Another problem is that veggies and herbs need
certain conditions. Our rainy season here in Belize, for example, is too wet
to grow cabbage, cucumbers, tomatoes, or the plants will get hammered by our
rain. We get over 160 inches of rain a year, with up to 8 inches of rain in
a night during the intense rains of June, July and August. You can apply
that to areas with hard freezes, too.

Aquaponics converts the problem of too much nutrients in water into the
solution to how to grow veggies and herbs in a small area. First, it allows
small holders to grow fish in a small area, say a back yard, or a patio, and
it also allows the production of vegetables. Coupled with a green house in a
temperate climate, it would either increase your season for veggies, or make
it year round.

Aquaponics is definitely is a tool to keep in your tool kit. While I would
never imagine aquaponics would replace soil based agriculture, or pond based
aquaculture, aquaponics lends itself well on places with any of the
following issues:
1. Poor soil
Much of the world has poor soil, and soil based agriculture will give small
yields.
2. Contaminated soil
In places where the soil, itself, is toxic, aquapnics allows the production
of fresh local veggies and herbs while avoiding taking up toxins in soil
3. Lack of access to water for irrigation
Aquaponics is %90 more efficient with water than soil based agriculture.
Israel is one of the leaders in aquaponics technology.
4. High population density areas, especially urban areas.
Aquaponics can have a very small foot print, can be roof mounted, can be
part of school programs, attached to hospitals. Working with industrial
ecologies toed to surplus energy or nutrients, like day old bread and waste
heat from a bakery, for example, or table scraps fed to vermiculture in a
cafeteria, and the  earth worms giving nutrients for the fish, and yeilding
worm castings for gardens, and aquaponics can be integrated into an urban
landscape.

Aquaponics systems range in size from gold fish tanks to many acres of
veggies with thousands of fish in tens of thousands of gallons of water.
Some are expensive, built rom expensive parts, and some are made from old
tanks and barrels. Joels system, in a space 4x8 meters in size, produced 100
kilograms of veggies and over 50 kg of fich in a 6 month period in suburban
Perth. Nobody can say it is not productive.

We are working on an aquaponics system here, and expect it to be up and
running by the end of the year. Limiting factors for us have been having a
large enough photovoltaic system to run it. If anyone is interested in
learning a LOT about aquaponics, check genius Aussie Joel Malcolms web page
www.backyardaquaponics.com. He even has a forum where hundred of people have
their systems on display.

Best wishes,

Christopher


_____________________________
Christopher Nesbitt

Maya Mountain Research Farm
San Pedro Columbia, Toledo
PO 153 Punta Gorda Town, Toledo
BELIZE,
Central America

Country code 501-630-4386

www.mmrfbz.org
www.facebook.com/MayaMountainResearchFarm




On Oct 7, 2012, at 12:06 PM, Steve Hart wrote:

> Permaculture Aquaponics ?....thats doing sprouts. Interesting debate
Georg.
> I recall a strong cliche and probably a well used principle in
Permaculture
> that states " Work with Nature not Against Her" . Any water plants that
> exist in that world in nature are surely part of an aquaponic system. But
> when we call hydroponics organic and Permaculture someone went to the
wrong
> course or had a very deficient teacher. I like the connection with nature
> for it has so many valuable realms that connect many of our critical
> functions to the elements we receive from that connection. They are not
> simple nutrition but many other levels of energy as well. Then of course
we
> get into another huge debate about appropriate or non -appropriate diets.
> Interesting to see the acceleration in Prana. I look forward to the
> debate....Steve Hart
>
> On 7 October 2012 16:06, georg parlow <g.parlow@gmx.at> wrote:
>
>> Hi there,
>>
>> Being stuck in a city I recently started pondering and researching the
>> idea of aquaponics. The web tells me of Max Meyers doing aquaponics
>> the permaculture way. I am am pc designer myself for almost 20 years
>> now, with moderate experience in counselling, design and
>> implementation. I am wondering what he does differently that any
>> decent permie would not think of my himself? Any experiences? Any
>> reports or details of his approach anywhere on the web?
>>
>> thanks,
>> Georg
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>
>
>
> --
> Kia ora
>
> [image: Picture]
> *Steve Hart*
> Ecology Architect
> skype: stevenlawrencehart
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