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  • From: Toby Hemenway <toby@patternliteracy.com>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] energy inputs and year round growing was Re: soilless crop production
  • Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 16:04:49 -0700

Frances, et al: Good points. I don't have the whole study with me, just those
numbers, but I assume it is for an average of US Ag output on some large
scale, e.g., commodity food.

What "84% of the energy expended is in production" says to me is that
production is where the improvement can be gotten, as you suggest. Local,
small-farm food, has a far better chance of having a small carbon footprint
than commodity food.

The leverage point is in the growing, more than in the transporting.

Toby
http://patternliteracy.com


On Sep 12, 2012, at 3:37 PM, Frances and David wrote:

> Thanks for sharing this and taking the topic in a new direction, Tony. I'd
> love to see this study, but the way I see it, there is more to this than
> meets the eye.
> I have heard that it would cost more, environmentally, to keep apples or
> pears fresh here in BC than it does to fly them up from Argentina, for
> instance. This might be true and certainly assuages my conscience in the
> buying of an organic pear from abroad. However, I feel that we need to look
> into the factors involved. It's easy to leave something out of the
> equation,
> isn't it? And then, equations can and do change, don't they? Advances in
> refrigeration and/or air travel might change the outcome of the equation. A
> change from air to sea might change that, too. However, I am told that sea
> travel uses the dirtiest of oils, sadly. Again, one piece of information
> coming across, with variables that could, in time, change.
> I am mostly wondering, though, whether the study differentiates between
> types of growing operations such as organic, conventional and gmo. Huge
> energy inputs in artificial fertilizers, pesticides, and ge seed creation.
> Huge inputs, and, I might add, sadly, losses. Are we talking about the type
> of food that is mass produced and mass distributed merely? If so, then we
> are leaving a whole lot out of the equation of possibilities, and narrow
> our
> path of selection based on a particular set of premises.
> Another possibility (a small point, but perhaps worthy for the sharing of
> different layers of the formula for consideration): perhaps the vertical
> garden removes some of the energy input from the harvesting side of the
> equation. It does, most certainly, allow for denser living while
> simultaneously, producing food, of that we can be fairly certain. That, in
> turn, means, that if we are going to grow our own food, we can, by virtue
> of
> vertical gardening, live nearer one another and other destinations. This
> might be seen as an unexamined factor in the growing of vertical food,
> depending on the extent to which we want to examine our alternatives in an
> 'as if they were to multiply throughout the world' fashion.
> Once we move beyond conventional practices, there is a world of difference
> out there waiting to be discovered. Consider foraging additions to the
> diet, and the food forest and hugelkultur techonologies for growing.
> Perhaps
> the energy saved through wise ways could go towards the vertical growing
> out
> of season/out of growing zone practices. And perhaps there is a way, just
> as
> rocket stoves have provided incredible methods for conservation of both
> energy and air quality, to affect these conditions with energy wise
> technology, too. As more and more people grow food in the vicinity of their
> homes, this increasingly becomes possible. Solariums off the front of
> houses, for instance, provides dual purpose for heating, and effective Zone
> 1 location for multi season cultivation. Perhaps lights for growing can
> also
> serve as lights for living. (This would be true for greens. The lights
> required for fruiting have warnings about looking at them) I grew indoor
> greens of the edible variety for a while, and I must say that the full
> spectrum lights were very cheering to the rainy winter here, as were the
> greens. Tricky part was the ecosystem aspect -- eventually bugs developed.
> Love the prospect of having an attached to the home food growing area some
> day.
>
> Just some thoughts on the matter.
> Hope this helps,
>
> Frances
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Toby Hemenway
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 12:30 PM
> To: permaculture
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] soilless crop production
>
> The sad thing about food miles is that transportation energy used in
> agriculture--the 1500 mile salad--is only 4% of the total energy involved
> in
> growing, processing, distributing and selling food. Reducing the distance
> food travels will have very, very little impact on the energy costs of the
> food system. Most of the energy use, 84%, is on-farm and processing.
> Vertical farming, whether renewable-based or not, uses more energy,
> wherever
> it is done, and doing it locally won't change that.
>
> (the source for the numbers is "The Impact of Household Food on Climate
> Change," Environmental Science and Technology, 2009, 42:3609 by Weber and
> Matthews)
>
> This really bummed me out when I heard it, since food-miles was such a good
> bludgeon to use for the local food argument. Ah, well. There are a lot of
> other reasons that food should be grown locally.
>
> Toby
> http://patternliteracy.com
>
>
> On Sep 12, 2012, at 11:09 AM, Joy Cernac wrote:
>
>> Re: vertical farming. The elephant in the room is the ENERGY required to
>> transport food. An energy cost-benefit analysis and side comparison would
>> need to be conducted between the average amount of transportation
>> fuel-related food miles (1500mi) from farm to plate, compared with the
>> amount of energy to generate power for localized vertical farms.
>> Obviously,
>> such as the point of Mr. Head, renewable energy would negate the
>> global-warming and fossil fuel-associated issues assciated with tower
>> gardening indoors. Renewables combined with localized organic
>> aquaculture-derived food production are the only sustainable answer in my
>> mind, as we are all crowded in polluted cities and are living in a
>> fossil-fuel propped-up nation. This model is being developed by countless
>> individuals right now, across the world - combined, closed-loop aeroponics
>> and aquaponics models that produce an ecosystem in working together. In
>> the
>> city, soil contamination is always an issue...so growing in water, locally
>> in the cities is the healthiest solution while we are getting our food
>> system off the grid. Once all our electricity is run on renewables and we
>> all have long-range electric vehicles that can transport food great
>> distances (we're looking at a couple hundred years out for that...), then
>> it will make environmental cost-benefit analytical sense to transport food
>> long distances. It's only a matter of time until the localized
>> aeroponic/hydroponic models are implemented on a grander scale and the
>> cities are thereby moved toward having a secure, sustainable food supply.
>>
>> Joy
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 10:28 AM, georg parlow <g.parlow@gmx.at> wrote:
>>
>>> Hm, in one of the linked articles it says
>>> "Indeed, even in today's single-storey glasshouses, artificial
>>> lighting is needed to enable year-round production. Thanet Earth, a 90-
>>> hectare facility which opened in Kent in 2008 and is the largest such
>>> site in Britain—it provides 15% of the British salad crop—requires
>>> its own mini power-station to provide its plants with light for 15
>>> hours a day during the winter months. This rather undermines the
>>> notion that vertical farming will save energy and cut carbon
>>> emissions, notes Mr Head, who has carried out several studies of the
>>> idea. Vertical farming will need cheap, renewable energy if it is to
>>> work, he says."
>>> Sure does not sound like a sustainable idea, or does it?
>>>
>>> Georg
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 09.09.2012 um 04:25 schrieb venaurafarm:
>>>
>>>> On 9/8/2012 10:09 PM, venaurafarm wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> That was it, efficient, effective ways to grow food in a space
>>>>> environment. Petri dish for cultured muscle tissue for the grill or
>>>>> microwave. This was part of a Google+ conversation in comments on a
>>>>> Google+ post with a friend.
>>>>>
>>>>> Still, sprouts need only water while grasses and other plants need
>>>>> growing medium that is soil-like i.e. sunflower, a recyclable
>>>>> scaffold
>>>>> for the roots to grow into with nutrient, similar with spirulina and
>>>>> chlorella, container and nutrient. In a space environment I would
>>>>> assume
>>>>> they would maintain a culture library of beneficial microorganisms
>>>>> for
>>>>> use in food production and sewage treatment, recycling humanure as
>>>>> soil-like growing medium and nutrients and secondary biological
>>>>> treatment of liquid back to potable water; they already do this.
>>>>
>>>> More of my comments in this thread:
>>>>
>>>> Needless to say we need to conserve and protect our best farmland
>>>> for production of the cleanest, most natural, most nutritious food for
>>>> mankind. Elimination of toxins, contaminants, gmo's, all categories of
>>>> pesticides will be mandatory. Full engagement with soil building
>>>> programs for 1) season extension 2) water and nutrient conservation 3)
>>>> building soil quality through the right kind of tillage, cropping
>>>> system, application of soil amendments, mineral, macronutrient,
>>>> beneficial organisms will also be mandatory. Using permaculture
>>>> methods
>>>> will make all this possible. Here's to health and happiness!
>>>>
>>>> <>
>>>>
>>>> Need less food with better, more complete, maximum nutrition. This is
>>>> here now. Food combining for maximum digestion for maximum nutrition
>>>> for
>>>> maximum health and longevity. Raw foods is one of the strategies
>>>> used to
>>>> achieve this goal. Food combining for raw foods dieting = combining
>>>> foods at a meal that are compatible, not antagonistic, i.e. no acid
>>>> foods with starchy foods, only one kind of protein at a meal, no
>>>> protein
>>>> with starchy foods, eat separately; vegetables with starches or
>>>> vegetables with protein, fruit alone: sweet along, acid alone, some
>>>> subacid can be eaten with vegetables, i.e. peaches and tomatoes with
>>>> vegetable salads - there's lots to this type of raw foods diet. For
>>>> more
>>>> info obtain a used copy of Viktoras Kulvinskas book: Survival In The
>>>> 21st Century: A Planetary Healer's Handbook (with artwork by Peter
>>>> Max).
>>>> This is a really good book. Other works include those of Ann Wigmore
>>>> on
>>>> sprouts, raw foods and cultured foods such as seed cheese. There's
>>>> lots
>>>> on all these people on the Web, try a Google search. Add traditional
>>>> Japanese macrobiotics nutrition - very excellent, controlled dieting,
>>>> excellent nutrition, fermented probiotic foods, kim chee, kraut, kefir
>>>> and more.
>>>>
>>>> With permaculture and natural, biological, biointensive agriculture in
>>>> harmony with nature and Gaia, the Earth will be able to support life
>>>> for
>>>> much longer than with the present dominant method, chemical and gmo.
>>>> Tree of Life Web Project http://tolweb.org/tree/
>>>>
>>>> There is vertical farming, a fascinating new concept though expensive:
>>>>
>>>> An important book on this subject:
>>>> The Vertical Farm: Feeding the World in the 21st Century by Dickson D.
>>>> Despommier (Oct 12, 2010)
>>>>
>>> http://www.amazon.com/The-Vertical-Farm-Feeding-Century/dp/B0055X6F1A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1347125638&sr=8-1&keywords=vertical+farm
>>>>
>>>> The Vertical Farm Project - Agriculture for the 21st Century and ...
>>>> www.verticalfarm.com
>>>>
>>>> Images for Vertical Farming
>>>>
>>> https://www.google.com/search?q=Vertical+Farming&hl=en&client=firefox-beta&hs=e84&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=imvnsb&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=83tLULnLBoH00gGz1YDABQ&ved=0CC4QsAQ
>>>>
>>>> Growing Skyscrapers: The Rise of Vertical Farms: Scientific American
>>>>
>>> http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=the-rise-of-vertical-farms
>>>> Oct 24, 2009 – Growing crops in city skyscrapers would use less
>>>> water
>>>> and fossil fuel than outdoor farming, eliminate agricultural runoff,
>>>> and
>>>> provide fresh ...
>>>>
>>>> <>
>>>>
>>>> Hydroponics, aquaponics, aeroponics do that. It is a matter of
>>>> designing
>>>> equipment and processes scaled to the need at hand. Nothing wrong with
>>>> automation, auto-harvesting and placing in refrigeration or prep for a
>>>> meal. Much work has been done with growing blue-green algae and
>>>> chlorella; that could easily be scaled
>>>> to home food production. SPROUTS! Grow sprouts in trays and recycle
>>>> the
>>>> growing medium and stubble. Wheatgrass, barley grass, alfalfa,
>>>> sunflower
>>>> (black oil seed), buckwheat (buckwheat lettuce) are gourmet food. I
>>>> have
>>>> eaten all of them except barley grass. I think sprouts could become a
>>>> major source of plant-based nutrition when depending on soilless
>>>> growth
>>>> medium. Very many vegetable seeds can be sprouted for human
>>>> consumption.
>>>> Next, consider the potential for soilless growth of certain wild,
>>>> exotic, heirloom, international foods, including some fruits. What
>>>> about fruit; how could one do without that. Quality meat grown in a
>>>> Petri dish sounds like future food. Google "future food" and see
>>>> pfaf.org, Plants For A Future. I think cultured meat product could be
>>>> made to taste great. "Seed" or starter tissue could be frozen for
>>>> years
>>>> to ensure a supply for future use.
>>>>
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