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  • From: "Frances and David" <fdnokes@hotmail.com>
  • To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: [permaculture] energy inputs and year round growing was Re: soilless crop production
  • Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 15:37:51 -0700

Thanks for sharing this and taking the topic in a new direction, Tony. I'd love to see this study, but the way I see it, there is more to this than meets the eye.
I have heard that it would cost more, environmentally, to keep apples or pears fresh here in BC than it does to fly them up from Argentina, for instance. This might be true and certainly assuages my conscience in the buying of an organic pear from abroad. However, I feel that we need to look into the factors involved. It's easy to leave something out of the equation, isn't it? And then, equations can and do change, don't they? Advances in refrigeration and/or air travel might change the outcome of the equation. A change from air to sea might change that, too. However, I am told that sea travel uses the dirtiest of oils, sadly. Again, one piece of information coming across, with variables that could, in time, change.
I am mostly wondering, though, whether the study differentiates between types of growing operations such as organic, conventional and gmo. Huge energy inputs in artificial fertilizers, pesticides, and ge seed creation. Huge inputs, and, I might add, sadly, losses. Are we talking about the type of food that is mass produced and mass distributed merely? If so, then we are leaving a whole lot out of the equation of possibilities, and narrow our path of selection based on a particular set of premises.
Another possibility (a small point, but perhaps worthy for the sharing of different layers of the formula for consideration): perhaps the vertical garden removes some of the energy input from the harvesting side of the equation. It does, most certainly, allow for denser living while simultaneously, producing food, of that we can be fairly certain. That, in turn, means, that if we are going to grow our own food, we can, by virtue of vertical gardening, live nearer one another and other destinations. This might be seen as an unexamined factor in the growing of vertical food, depending on the extent to which we want to examine our alternatives in an 'as if they were to multiply throughout the world' fashion.
Once we move beyond conventional practices, there is a world of difference out there waiting to be discovered. Consider foraging additions to the diet, and the food forest and hugelkultur techonologies for growing. Perhaps the energy saved through wise ways could go towards the vertical growing out of season/out of growing zone practices. And perhaps there is a way, just as rocket stoves have provided incredible methods for conservation of both energy and air quality, to affect these conditions with energy wise technology, too. As more and more people grow food in the vicinity of their homes, this increasingly becomes possible. Solariums off the front of houses, for instance, provides dual purpose for heating, and effective Zone 1 location for multi season cultivation. Perhaps lights for growing can also serve as lights for living. (This would be true for greens. The lights required for fruiting have warnings about looking at them) I grew indoor greens of the edible variety for a while, and I must say that the full spectrum lights were very cheering to the rainy winter here, as were the greens. Tricky part was the ecosystem aspect -- eventually bugs developed. Love the prospect of having an attached to the home food growing area some day.

Just some thoughts on the matter.
Hope this helps,

Frances




-----Original Message----- From: Toby Hemenway
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 12:30 PM
To: permaculture
Subject: Re: [permaculture] soilless crop production

The sad thing about food miles is that transportation energy used in agriculture--the 1500 mile salad--is only 4% of the total energy involved in growing, processing, distributing and selling food. Reducing the distance food travels will have very, very little impact on the energy costs of the food system. Most of the energy use, 84%, is on-farm and processing. Vertical farming, whether renewable-based or not, uses more energy, wherever it is done, and doing it locally won't change that.

(the source for the numbers is "The Impact of Household Food on Climate Change," Environmental Science and Technology, 2009, 42:3609 by Weber and Matthews)

This really bummed me out when I heard it, since food-miles was such a good bludgeon to use for the local food argument. Ah, well. There are a lot of other reasons that food should be grown locally.

Toby
http://patternliteracy.com


On Sep 12, 2012, at 11:09 AM, Joy Cernac wrote:

Re: vertical farming. The elephant in the room is the ENERGY required to
transport food. An energy cost-benefit analysis and side comparison would
need to be conducted between the average amount of transportation
fuel-related food miles (1500mi) from farm to plate, compared with the
amount of energy to generate power for localized vertical farms. Obviously,
such as the point of Mr. Head, renewable energy would negate the
global-warming and fossil fuel-associated issues assciated with tower
gardening indoors. Renewables combined with localized organic
aquaculture-derived food production are the only sustainable answer in my
mind, as we are all crowded in polluted cities and are living in a
fossil-fuel propped-up nation. This model is being developed by countless
individuals right now, across the world - combined, closed-loop aeroponics
and aquaponics models that produce an ecosystem in working together. In the
city, soil contamination is always an issue...so growing in water, locally
in the cities is the healthiest solution while we are getting our food
system off the grid. Once all our electricity is run on renewables and we
all have long-range electric vehicles that can transport food great
distances (we're looking at a couple hundred years out for that...), then
it will make environmental cost-benefit analytical sense to transport food
long distances. It's only a matter of time until the localized
aeroponic/hydroponic models are implemented on a grander scale and the
cities are thereby moved toward having a secure, sustainable food supply.

Joy

On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 10:28 AM, georg parlow <g.parlow@gmx.at> wrote:

Hm, in one of the linked articles it says
"Indeed, even in today's single-storey glasshouses, artificial
lighting is needed to enable year-round production. Thanet Earth, a 90-
hectare facility which opened in Kent in 2008 and is the largest such
site in Britain—it provides 15% of the British salad crop—requires
its own mini power-station to provide its plants with light for 15
hours a day during the winter months. This rather undermines the
notion that vertical farming will save energy and cut carbon
emissions, notes Mr Head, who has carried out several studies of the
idea. Vertical farming will need cheap, renewable energy if it is to
work, he says."
Sure does not sound like a sustainable idea, or does it?

Georg



Am 09.09.2012 um 04:25 schrieb venaurafarm:

On 9/8/2012 10:09 PM, venaurafarm wrote:

That was it, efficient, effective ways to grow food in a space
environment. Petri dish for cultured muscle tissue for the grill or
microwave. This was part of a Google+ conversation in comments on a
Google+ post with a friend.

Still, sprouts need only water while grasses and other plants need
growing medium that is soil-like i.e. sunflower, a recyclable
scaffold
for the roots to grow into with nutrient, similar with spirulina and
chlorella, container and nutrient. In a space environment I would
assume
they would maintain a culture library of beneficial microorganisms
for
use in food production and sewage treatment, recycling humanure as
soil-like growing medium and nutrients and secondary biological
treatment of liquid back to potable water; they already do this.

More of my comments in this thread:

Needless to say we need to conserve and protect our best farmland
for production of the cleanest, most natural, most nutritious food for
mankind. Elimination of toxins, contaminants, gmo's, all categories of
pesticides will be mandatory. Full engagement with soil building
programs for 1) season extension 2) water and nutrient conservation 3)
building soil quality through the right kind of tillage, cropping
system, application of soil amendments, mineral, macronutrient,
beneficial organisms will also be mandatory. Using permaculture
methods
will make all this possible. Here's to health and happiness!

<>

Need less food with better, more complete, maximum nutrition. This is
here now. Food combining for maximum digestion for maximum nutrition
for
maximum health and longevity. Raw foods is one of the strategies
used to
achieve this goal. Food combining for raw foods dieting = combining
foods at a meal that are compatible, not antagonistic, i.e. no acid
foods with starchy foods, only one kind of protein at a meal, no
protein
with starchy foods, eat separately; vegetables with starches or
vegetables with protein, fruit alone: sweet along, acid alone, some
subacid can be eaten with vegetables, i.e. peaches and tomatoes with
vegetable salads - there's lots to this type of raw foods diet. For
more
info obtain a used copy of Viktoras Kulvinskas book: Survival In The
21st Century: A Planetary Healer's Handbook (with artwork by Peter
Max).
This is a really good book. Other works include those of Ann Wigmore
on
sprouts, raw foods and cultured foods such as seed cheese. There's
lots
on all these people on the Web, try a Google search. Add traditional
Japanese macrobiotics nutrition - very excellent, controlled dieting,
excellent nutrition, fermented probiotic foods, kim chee, kraut, kefir
and more.

With permaculture and natural, biological, biointensive agriculture in
harmony with nature and Gaia, the Earth will be able to support life
for
much longer than with the present dominant method, chemical and gmo.
Tree of Life Web Project http://tolweb.org/tree/

There is vertical farming, a fascinating new concept though expensive:

An important book on this subject:
The Vertical Farm: Feeding the World in the 21st Century by Dickson D.
Despommier (Oct 12, 2010)

http://www.amazon.com/The-Vertical-Farm-Feeding-Century/dp/B0055X6F1A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1347125638&sr=8-1&keywords=vertical+farm

The Vertical Farm Project - Agriculture for the 21st Century and ...
www.verticalfarm.com

Images for Vertical Farming

https://www.google.com/search?q=Vertical+Farming&hl=en&client=firefox-beta&hs=e84&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=imvnsb&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=83tLULnLBoH00gGz1YDABQ&ved=0CC4QsAQ

Growing Skyscrapers: The Rise of Vertical Farms: Scientific American

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=the-rise-of-vertical-farms
Oct 24, 2009 – Growing crops in city skyscrapers would use less
water
and fossil fuel than outdoor farming, eliminate agricultural runoff,
and
provide fresh ...

<>

Hydroponics, aquaponics, aeroponics do that. It is a matter of
designing
equipment and processes scaled to the need at hand. Nothing wrong with
automation, auto-harvesting and placing in refrigeration or prep for a
meal. Much work has been done with growing blue-green algae and
chlorella; that could easily be scaled
to home food production. SPROUTS! Grow sprouts in trays and recycle
the
growing medium and stubble. Wheatgrass, barley grass, alfalfa,
sunflower
(black oil seed), buckwheat (buckwheat lettuce) are gourmet food. I
have
eaten all of them except barley grass. I think sprouts could become a
major source of plant-based nutrition when depending on soilless
growth
medium. Very many vegetable seeds can be sprouted for human
consumption.
Next, consider the potential for soilless growth of certain wild,
exotic, heirloom, international foods, including some fruits. What
about fruit; how could one do without that. Quality meat grown in a
Petri dish sounds like future food. Google "future food" and see
pfaf.org, Plants For A Future. I think cultured meat product could be
made to taste great. "Seed" or starter tissue could be frozen for
years
to ensure a supply for future use.

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