permaculture

[Cory Brennan <cory8570@yahoo.com>]

I would say it would be worth the travel miles if we actually walk away with 
a plan to expand permaculture in multiple areas much more quickly than it is 
happening and actually execute it. Then it would be worth it. 


________________________________
 From: Bob Waldrop <bob@bobwaldrop.net>
To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org 
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Fwd: Nth American Conf
 
Why do we think that this event would be worth the damage the travel and 
etc associated with it would cause the earth's ecologies? Haven't we  
done enough harm to all with our sense of entitlement to all the travel 
we can manage to pay for with dollars?  Especially those of us who are 
privileged First World people?

The Union of Concerned Scientists recently released a book on global 
warming and transportation/travel is one of the three major contributors 
to the emissions driving climate change.  They say one imperative of the 
future is that we need to drive less and travel less.  If we do travel, 
the kindest-to-the-earth method of travel is to take the bus.

So in the spirit of harm reduction, at minimum if this event occurs it 
should be in a city easily accessible by bus travel, and travel by air 
and automobile should be actively discouraged by the organizers.  If it 
becomes a regular thing, it should not be an annual event, but instead 
should be at most once every four years.

Bob Waldrop, OKC
http://www.bettertimesinfo.org/permaculture350.pdf -- Hacking 
permaculture in 350 words



On 7/16/2012 6:41 AM, venaurafarm wrote:
> Steve Hart
> Ecology Architect
> skype: stevenlawrencehart
>
> Nth American Permaculture Conference ?
>
> Hey guys...not so long ago there was discussion on a likely Conference
> for all Nth America...whats happened to that energy ? has anyone picked
> up the challenge?, taken an initiative and moved it forward ? Skeeta,
> are you still in there ? I reckon its time to take the bull by the horns
> and jump in the deep end.
>
> At the International Conference in Jordan, IPC10, Scott Pitman and I
> discussed future international structures in a workshop. There has been
> waned discussion since but with Cuba's IPC11 just around the corner the
> agenda will gain more development. One thread is to realise the
> continental regions of the world. Then to consider each region having
> conferences. Europe is already well advanced on this with their 12th
> Conference happening in Kassel this year 1-5th August. Central America
> has had a few. No other region to my knowledge has gone there yet.
>
> Something worthy of development eh what ?
>
> Steve Hart
>
>
>
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The problem with our present fossil-fuel based travel is not just the
availability of fossil fuels, but also their contribution to global warming.

I personally am dubious as to an internal combustion engine that runs
200x more efficient than is presently the case. I think if that was
technically feasible, we would see it in operation.  If fuel companies
conspired to suppress it, something that much more efficient would be in
widespread bootleg use.  If the government can't prevent the importation
of thousands of tons of marijuana and cocaine, they would likely not be
able to suppress wisespread bootleg use of a technology like that.

But in any event, we have the transportation system we presently have
and that's the one that people would use to attend a North American
convergence.

According to Wikipedia, the geographic center of North America is 6
miles west of Balta, North Dakota which alas is not on a regularly
scheduled bus line.

Greyhound has 3100 service locations (bus stops) in North America --

Greyhound bus stops in US --
http://www.greyhound.com/en/locations/states.aspx
Canada -- http://www.greyhound.ca/en/locations/states.aspx
Mexico border cities to and from US destinations --
http://www.crucero-usa.com/

And then there is the Megabus system, which is a central to eastern USA
option -- http://www.megabus.com .

If I was picking, I would say a city served both by the Megabus system
and Greyhound would be a good choice.  That limits the options to large
cities (because of Megabus) but that might not be such a bad idea, since
if we want to expand permaculture, we have to start thinking more about
urban permaculture.

I've always thought that a good schedule for meetings could be a four
year schedule -- in years 1 and 3, there are local meetings, in year 2
there could be regional meetings (states, bio regions, watersheds, etc),
in year 4 a continental convergence.  I don't know where the
international convergence would fit in that scheme, maybe expand it to 8
years and in the 8th year, we go international.

Obviously I am not fond of meetings, lol.  Actually, I am a recovering
meeting-holic, first I was an avid attendee, then when I got a minor bit
of notoriety for my work with the Oklahoma Food Cooperative, I started
getting invitations to travel and speak. The bloom fell off of that rose
really quickly and I quit soliciting and accepting invitations. I did
speak at a Rocky Mountain farmers Cooperative meeting in Denver last
year but I have family there and took the bus round trip.  So there were
stacked functions as well as the speaking engagement.

I am just saying that we in permaculture "of all people" should be most
willing -- eager, even --  to examine our consciences about such things.
The ability to even think about holding a meeting like this is based on
the fact that we are privileged white folks, with resources which we
think are "to spare" so we can do something like this.  If indeed it is
a seed planting expedition that will yield an actual surplus, that's one
thing, but if it's just another travel indulgence to some kewl place to
go, well, we shouldn't even think about it.

And also, the ecological impact of the event can be dramatically
lessened if we are willing to do the right thing by the planet and take
the bus instead of flying.

Bob Waldrop, OKC

On 7/16/2012 1:10 PM, Steve Hart wrote:
> Nth American Conf.
>
> Thanks Bob for your response. I certainly respect the concerns and views
> you outline which are shared by many. However I often wonder if we, the
> masses, are not forever being conned in many areas especially the debates
> raging over fuels and the costs and dangers of such. I have been aware for
> a long time that we can run the humble old combustion engine at rates 200
> times more efficient than conventional running. Why do we not see this ?
> Perhaps because that would not sell fuel at the same rate and not allow the
> petrochem companys to rake the billions they do. Can we argue the same for
> air planes and their efficiiency..I often ask this question and are we just
> the pawns in their game ?
>
> I also like your support of where such a conference could be held and how
> all Americans could travel there ? Where is the demographic centre of Nth
> America ?  Detroit ?...be a great place to make a statement wouldn't it ?
>
> To add to the topic of developing continental regional conferences from our
> workshop at IPC10 Roberto Perez (Cuba) proposed these regions:
>
> 1 North America
>
>
>
> 2 Meso America and Caribbean
>
>
>
> 3 South America
>
>
>
> 4 Europe
>
>
>
> 5 Eastern Europe
>
>
>
> 6 Australia and new zealand and oceania
>
>
>
> 7 Subsaharian Africa
>
>
>
> 8 north Africa  and middle east
>
>
>
> 9 Far east
>
>
>
> 10 India and mid asia
>
>
>
>
> I look forward to the continuing debate
>
>
> Regards
>
>
> Steve Hart
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 09:57:53 -0500
>> From: Bob Waldrop <bob@bobwaldrop.net>
>> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Fwd: Nth American Conf
>> To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
>> Message-ID: <50042BF1.5030401@bobwaldrop.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>
>> Why do we think that this event would be worth the damage the travel and
>> etc associated with it would cause the earth's ecologies? Haven't we
>> done enough harm to all with our sense of entitlement to all the travel
>> we can manage to pay for with dollars?  Especially those of us who are
>> privileged First World people?
>>
>> The Union of Concerned Scientists recently released a book on global
>> warming and transportation/travel is one of the three major contributors
>> to the emissions driving climate change.  They say one imperative of the
>> future is that we need to drive less and travel less.  If we do travel,
>> the kindest-to-the-earth method of travel is to take the bus.
>>
>> So in the spirit of harm reduction, at minimum if this event occurs it
>> should be in a city easily accessible by bus travel, and travel by air
>> and automobile should be actively discouraged by the organizers.  If it
>> becomes a regular thing, it should not be an annual event, but instead
>> should be at most once every four years.
>>
>> Bob Waldrop, OKC
>> http://www.bettertimesinfo.org/permaculture350.pdf -- Hacking
>> permaculture in 350 words
>>
>>
>>
>> On 7/16/2012 6:41 AM, venaurafarm wrote:
>>> Steve Hart
>>> Ecology Architect
>>> skype: stevenlawrencehart
>>>
>>> Nth American Permaculture Conference ?
>>>
>>> Hey guys...not so long ago there was discussion on a likely Conference
>>> for all Nth America...whats happened to that energy ? has anyone picked
>>> up the challenge?, taken an initiative and moved it forward ? Skeeta,
>>> are you still in there ? I reckon its time to take the bull by the horns
>>> and jump in the deep end.
>>>
>>> At the International Conference in Jordan, IPC10, Scott Pitman and I
>>> discussed future international structures in a workshop. There has been
>>> waned discussion since but with Cuba's IPC11 just around the corner the
>>> agenda will gain more development. One thread is to realise the
>>> continental regions of the world. Then to consider each region having
>>> conferences. Europe is already well advanced on this with their 12th
>>> Conference happening in Kassel this year 1-5th August. Central America
>>> has had a few. No other region to my knowledge has gone there yet.
>>>
>>> Something worthy of development eh what ?
>>>
>>> Steve
>> *********************************************
>>
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>
>