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  • From: Toby Hemenway <toby@patternliteracy.com>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Ormus- ORMES
  • Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 08:10:54 -0700

On Mar 1, 2011, at 7:07 PM, wenshidi@yahoo.co.uk wrote:

> there is no need to insult your fellow listers

I am at a loss to see how anyone on this list can consider themselves
insulted by my calling the material on the ORMES website "nonsense," or
saying that science does not encourage loony birds. Let's not act like
victims here. If you don't like my language, fine, but accusing me of
insulting someone here personally? Please. Read more carefully (isn't this
whole thing about critical thinking?). I was quite polite to Chris, yes? But
I've never cared much about getting along with, or being polite to people who
are doing destructive work or trying to hoodwink the ignorant. I welcome
differences of opinion, but I don't welcome ideas from people who haven't
made the slightest effort to know what they are talking about or who are
trying to deceive. It has nothing to do with opinion, intelligence, or
education, and everything to do with being honest about what you know and
what you are trying to do. Trying to deceive others and hide your real agenda
is an evil, harmful act. A very good way to defeat evil is to ridicule it, so
I reserve the right to ridicule or use any other tactic needed for that job.
And if someone is saying something that makes no sense, I will call it
nonsense.

I'm curious, Georg-- How was Darwin's theory changed by the people you
mention? My understanding is that Darwin's theory was modified little if any
by Margulis's ideas of symbiosis, since it was completely consistent with
natural selection, and changed none at all by Sagan or Lipton (Lipton's ideas
on the biology of belief are not well accepted--yet). The major tweak to
evolution theory was the Modern Synthesis of Dobzhansky, Fisher, and company
in the 1930s and 40s when the findings from population biology and genetics
were incorporated, and then a minor upset with Gould and Eldredge's
Punctuated Equilibrium in the 70s, but even those didn't put Darwin's
mechanism in doubt.

Ren, I appreciate your kindness, as I was not too kind to creationism. It's
encouraging to see a live example of science and religion living
harmoniously. Thank you.

I do apologize for hijacking the ORMES thread, but magic powders interest me
less than does learning to think.

Toby
http://patternliteracy.com



On Mar 2, 2011, at 4:39 AM, georg parlow wrote:

> Hi Toby:
>
> while I agree with you for the most part, I dislike the way you ridicule
> and insult people who hold different opinions or are of lesser education.
> Also I want to comment on one thing:
>
>> Those theories may get tweaked, but I am willing to bet a large sum that
>> they will never be discarded.
>
>
> I certainly agree, that the basic idea of evolution is hard to overthrow.
> But 'Darwin's theory of evolution by natural selection' had already to take
> quite a few heavy 'tweaks' when Lynn Margulis, Dorion Sagan or Bruce Lipton
> published their findings.
>
>
>
> Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
>
> Georg Parlow
> ************
> g.parlow@gmx.at
> 1230 Wien, Wohnpark Alterlaa B1/013
> +43-650-8899345
>
>
>
>
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