permaculture

[jamesdavid Sneed <harvestcircle@hotmail.com>]

But so many of the things we use DO pollute everytime we use them. Even wind 
power needs lubrication, and unless you are content to have the turbines turn 
slow enough that a vegetable oil will work, we will be "cracking" those oils 
with heat and pressure, and eventually have to replace them. Also, most 
machines leak lubrication. Then there is the sound pollution of the majority 
of wind turbines. And, do we really know the downwind effects of a wind 
turbine on the ecosystem, especially when used in masse to provide power to 
townies?
Biodiesel.....growing most oil-yielding plants to seed is rather rough on the 
soil. Even if biodiesel was organic, it requires fuel and altered ecosystems 
to produce.
How many filters and bearings are made from plants? Not many.

> Date: Sat, 8 May 2010 13:26:06 -0400
> From: cschampagne@gmail.com
> To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] From TruthOut
> 
> The minute you stop using something and get rid of it, by whatever means, it
> becomes the problem.  While you have it and are using it, the only energy
> required is that which runs it.  And that can be creatively harvested from
> Nature's bountiful, unlimited resources like wind, water, light and many
> more we haven't seriously considered, or even conceived of yet.
> 
> We all must simplify, but I disagree that we should think in terms of
> limitation, but rather rethink how we use what is available and present in
> our lives right now.
> 
> Nature does not work through limitation, but through perpetual and
> ever-expanding creation.
> Permaculture teaches us that.
> If we notice how Nature finds the resources necessary to continually create
> and create and create, we will finally be free of our fears about creating
> new, using what is present and running out of resources.  Methinks we need
> to come up out of our little holes of short-sighted quick-fix solutions and
> stand on the top of the mountain and really LOOK at what is possible.
> 
> Fear is what limits us, and allows others to control us.
> Let it go.
> 
> With great respect,
> Carolyn
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 1:01 PM, jamesdavid Sneed
> <harvestcircle@hotmail.com>wrote:
> 
> >
> > Since I have recently said I intend to quit using petroleum products and
> > toxic man-made materials within a year, I am exploring exactly what this
> > means. I invite everyone to comment on what this entails, and help me set
> > honest goals for this. It can be an exercise in assessment, and for some 
> > who
> > may wish to join in this endeavor, it can be the beginning of their own
> > plan.
> > First off, this machine I am using to post these thoughts will have to go.
> > Their is not all that much truly recyclable about computer materials, and
> > even that little recycling may cost more energy and pollution than it 
> > saves.
> > The only thing enduring about my computer is the continuing toxicity of 
> > the
> > materials it is made from.
> > So if I quit driving, build a houseboat small enough to use oars and sails
> > instead of a motor, will that do it? Well, not if I order bulk foods to be
> > sent to Alaska by air or by oil-burning barge lines. Must mean I need to
> > intensify my quest to grow or gather100% of my food. That is quite 
> > possible.
> > Can I store away and then plant enough to keep going? What about my 
> > brewing
> > grains? I grow some, must grow them all, and the hops, but maybe I'll use
> > medieval recipes for beer that utilize easier-to-grow-in-the-north herbs
> > instead of hops.
> > Lots of wild blue and huckleberries, which have made some mighty fine wine
> > for me in the past.
> > I have no major need for things from a pharmacy. I am lucky. I have honed
> > my old-time veterinary skills and have kept healthy livestock and pets
> > without store-bought medicines. I guess I better stay out of any areas in
> > which rabies is endemic.
> > Since I eat wild meets, I best learn better about using my bow made from
> > local woods since bullets for my rifle come shipped via petroleum-fueled
> > vehicles. Yes, I've made black powder, but who wants to lug a heavy 
> > octagon
> > barrel around and try to reload in time to dissuade the brown bears I 
> > often
> > encounter.
> > My garden supplies come from the sea, the woods, and from the butts of
> > livestock. I labor by hand, make more of my own tools each year.
> > Clearly this will be complex as I try to simplify, but once a person
> > starts, the simplicity seems to snowball and reveal it's own viability.
> > What are your thoughts on this?
> >
> > > From: harvestcircle@hotmail.com
> > > To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> > > Date: Fri, 7 May 2010 11:04:25 -0700
> > > Subject: Re: [permaculture] From TruthOut
> > >
> > >
> > > People should have begun long ago to prepare by practicing real skills,
> > so when civilization reaches critical mass and collapses the needed skills
> > will be second nature rather than something written and read about in a
> > groovy magazine or manual. The best way to practice is to fully live a
> > lifestyle that primarily or totally utilizes those skills.
> > > While for most folks a transition must be gradual, time is of the 
> > > essence
> > and those who can't practice this weekend because their favorite sports
> > event is scheduled (or other entertainment) might just miss the boat.
> > >
> > > > Date: Fri, 7 May 2010 11:55:44 -0600
> > > > From: johntnaisbitt@gmail.com
> > > > To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> > > > Subject: Re: [permaculture] From TruthOut
> > > >
> > > > Yes....... again.
> > > >
> > > > I believe that the "we" should be defined.
> > > >
> > > > Taking into consideration that "we" relates to those of European
> > descent, we
> > > > have invasively migrated into just about every corner of the 
> > > > indigenous
> > > > world do to our greed or demand for a more "suitable" environment.
> > These
> > > > indigenous environments could support the native populations on their
> > own
> > > > and through natural selection and evolution those peoples were getting
> > by
> > > > just fine.... until more modern agriculture practices came into play
> > > > increasing yield and pleasure.... thus creating greed.
> > > >
> > > > Through our own greed for new land "we" have moved into just about
> > every
> > > > nook and cranny of the earth and, with the aid of modern oil driven
> > machines
> > > > to make those places more like the "home" we have become accustomed to
> > > > living in, we are getting by just peachy.......
> > > >
> > > > Along with domineering corporate agendas, corruption, oil, and 
> > > > advances
> > in
> > > > "modern" medicine we have been able to out domineer, out produce, out
> > > > reproduce, and out live the competition for those lands..... 
> > > > destroying
> > > > everything in our path due to greed. So.... what do we do to solve the
> > > > problem?  Who retains the knowledge of those lands when the so called
> > > > "modern" conveniences run out? What right do we have to be there if we
> > > > cannot exist without the comforts of the outside world?
> > > >
> > > > At which point do we begin prepare for the to overall panic?
> > > >
> > > > John Thomas Naisbitt
> > > > Colombia
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 12:54 PM, <fdnokes@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi James, or anyone with a 'take' on this.
> > > > >
> > > > > Here is my little question:
> > > > >
> > > > > Do you think we have overstepped the bounds of what is habitable
> > space on
> > > > > earth?
> > > > > Are we trying to live in too many places that are not supportive
> > enough of
> > > > > life?
> > > > >
> > > > > Frances
> > > > >
> > > > > --------------------------------------------------
> > > > > From: "jamesdavid Sneed" <harvestcircle@hotmail.com>
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2010 8:15 AM
> > > > > To: <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> > > > > Subject: Re: [permaculture] From TruthOut
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It was completely avoidable if we would cease our addiction to 
> > > > > > oil,
> > or
> > > > > any
> > > > > > "easy" energy.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
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