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permaculture - Re: [permaculture] Climate change possibly irreversible

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  • From: david mattinson <notwithoutmylama@hotmail.com>
  • To: <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Climate change possibly irreversible
  • Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 12:35:51 +1000


This article seems to prove nothing more than science once again looking at
one effect of climate change rather than looking at a broader perspective.
Did they question the removal of vegetation over the last 100 years for it's
effects on the hydrological cycle. And how does the hydrological cycle and
biomass fit in with the carbon cycle. It seems quite dismissive of new
practises that are having a hard time gaining recognition let alone
acceptance.
Geo-engineering in the form of keyline and natural farming systems are
something that needs to be explored and put into practise on the larger scale
if we are ever going to see the benefits of these ideas.

As for planting trees, we are never going to get the amount needed in the
ground without the use of machinery. Ground needs to be prepared with
mounding and green manure crops for the trees to have their advantage.
Darren's planter will be a great tool to have but those who have worked on
large scale tree projects knows that on "fast ground" or wet and boggy days,
people will still be able to outplant any machine. But with out the use of
machines you would be lucky to put in 100 a day, let alone 1000's that are
required.
Ethical use of what fossil fuels we have left is going to be a tricky dilemma
for most of us in an age of declining oil.



> Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 11:11:59 -0700
> From: jamesdavid Sneed <harvestcircle@hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] climate change possibly irreversible
> To: <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <SNT131-w2015DCCB387861377EB0A7B2030@phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
>
>
> Good point, Rain. It always seems to surprise me how hung up people get
> promoting the use of machines to plant, and jets to fly to planting
> conferences, in order to plant trees to counter the burning of fuels in
> those machines and jets. Can't the conferences and workshops be online? And
> maybe if we were hand-planters instead of tractor-jocks we would be
> spreading a consciousness of intimacy with the earth and its plants instead
> of bragging about new planting machines.
>
> > Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2010 12:26:34 -0700
> > From: raincascadia@yahoo.com
> > To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> > Subject: [permaculture] climate change possibly irreversible
> >
> > I really appreciate all the efforts that are being made to find ways to
> > sequester carbon (Darren Doherty's posts are always inspiring), and these
> > efforts make sense on a lot of levels, but I just want to put a reminder
> > out there that we need to pay attention to the latest science and not get
> > overly optimistic. While they are still duking it out, this NOAA report
> > from over a year ago denies the possibility of reversing climate change
> > within any reasonable time frame:
> >
> > http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2009/20090126_climate.html
> >
> > A new scientific study led by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric
> > Administration reaches a powerful conclusion about the climate change
> > caused by future increases of carbon dioxide: to a large extent, there?s
> > no going back.
> > The pioneering study, led by NOAA senior scientist Susan Solomon, shows
> > how changes in surface temperature, rainfall, and sea level are largely
> > irreversible for more than 1,000 years after carbon dioxide (CO2)
> > emissions are completely stopped. The findings appear during the week of
> > January 26 in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.
> >
> > Geoengineering to remove carbon dioxide from the atmosphere was not
> > considered in the study. ?Ideas about taking the carbon dioxide away
> > after the world puts it in have been proposed, but right now those are
> > very speculative,? said Solomon.


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