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  • From: Kevin Topek <ktopek@att.net>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] climate change possibly irreversible
  • Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 19:21:33 -0500

All,

There are times when hand cultivation and labor is most advantageous. There are also situations when animal or machine labor is superior to hand work. It may be best not to generalize here. I use all 3 forms and find them all tiring. There is no rest for the wicked or weary.

Kevin Topek


On Apr 27, 2010, at 4:08 PM, jamesdavid Sneed wrote:


Thank you, Carolyn. It was actually your words that I found inspirational, and they helped me frame my thoughts about the simple acceptance of Nature's Abundance by putting our hands meaningfully into the soil.
I've driven many tractors in the past, but am glad now that I have chosen animal and hand power for cultivating our nurturing Earth. I am sad for the others who feel they must continue with machines in order to feed other people. It takes a leap of faith, and patience, but we can accept Simple Gifts with Heartfelt Thanks.

Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 15:31:35 -0400
From: cschampagne@gmail.com
To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [permaculture] climate change possibly irreversible

You have made the point very well here, and I agree.
It was not my intention to imply in any way that we do not have a deep and
urgent need to get our hands back into the earth, and to listen to our
Mother.
Nothing speaks more and clearer truth than Nature, and no 'invention' of man
has ever come close to 'getting' to the overall solution to a problem as
perfectly as She.

We need to stop and observe and synchronize our efforts with her cycles, as
well as the cycles that exist on a larger scale.
Until we do, we'll be putting out little fires and lighting others on an
ongoing basis, in perpetuity.
A good place to start, as you point out, is to plant seeds by hand and
nurture them as if they were our own children.

Carolyn





On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 2:17 PM, jamesdavid Sneed <harvestcircle@hotmail.com
wrote:


I agree, and unfortunately humans have a tendency for hubris, the
assumption that they have deity-like powers, in this case thinking that they
have the brain power to design technology to un-screw-up the mistakes from
the last set of technologies that were going to save the world. Maybe if
folks just spent time planting seed by hand, and gently cultivating the
earth by hand, they would begin to get the message the earth offers them
along with so much Abundance.

Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2010 17:33:56 -0400
From: cschampagne@gmail.com
To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [permaculture] climate change possibly irreversible

This may not be a popular idea to put forth to this group, but it seems
important that we, the folks who are following in nature's path to create
sustainable environments, pay attention to the larger picture of climate
change.
We are a small planet in a very large system, and that entire system is
undergoing climate change now.
I will follow this with links to sites that will corroborate the science
behind this shortly, but I just want all to remember we're not working in
a
vacuum here.
Yes, humans have screwed things up royally.
But, we are only contributing to the larger cycles that occur naturally
over
very long time scales.
Currently, we are experiencing influxes of gamma rays and other
off-planet
heater-uppers that are influencing the climates on every planet in our
solar
system.

It seems to me that as we move through the next 25 years, we'll notice
more
of that going on and become more generally aware of the interrelationship
among celestial bodies that is as intricate and beautiful and perfect as
the
natural relationships we find in nature on earth.

Back shortly with links.

Carolyn

On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 3:26 PM, Rain Tenaqiya <raincascadia@yahoo.com
wrote:

I really appreciate all the efforts that are being made to find ways to
sequester carbon (Darren Doherty's posts are always inspiring), and
these
efforts make sense on a lot of levels, but I just want to put a
reminder out
there that we need to pay attention to the latest science and not get
overly
optimistic. While they are still duking it out, this NOAA report from
over
a year ago denies the possibility of reversing climate change within
any
reasonable time frame:

http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2009/20090126_climate.html

A new scientific study led by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric
Administration reaches a powerful conclusion about the climate change
caused
by future increases of carbon dioxide: to a large extent, there’s no
going
back.
The pioneering study, led by NOAA senior scientist Susan Solomon, shows
how
changes in surface temperature, rainfall, and sea level are largely
irreversible for more than 1,000 years after carbon dioxide (CO2)
emissions
are completely stopped. The findings appear during the week of January
26 in
the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

Geoengineering to remove carbon dioxide from the atmosphere was not
considered in the study. “Ideas about taking the carbon dioxide away
after
the world puts it in have been proposed, but right now those are very
speculative,” said Solomon.



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