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  • From: jamesdavid Sneed <harvestcircle@hotmail.com>
  • To: <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Climate change possibly irreversible
  • Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 13:19:25 -0700


The terminolgy you use, the words you choose, are very indicative of the
nature of this illusion. Geo-engineering still implies that humans are so
smart that if they just want to be green in spirit they can design a
technology better than Nature. Stop the hubris before it is too late! Being
organic or being a permie doesn't insulate you from the hubris of humankind!

> From: notwithoutmylama@hotmail.com
> To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 12:35:51 +1000
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Climate change possibly irreversible
>
>
> This article seems to prove nothing more than science once again looking at
> one effect of climate change rather than looking at a broader perspective.
> Did they question the removal of vegetation over the last 100 years for
> it's effects on the hydrological cycle. And how does the hydrological cycle
> and biomass fit in with the carbon cycle. It seems quite dismissive of new
> practises that are having a hard time gaining recognition let alone
> acceptance.
> Geo-engineering in the form of keyline and natural farming systems are
> something that needs to be explored and put into practise on the larger
> scale if we are ever going to see the benefits of these ideas.
>
> As for planting trees, we are never going to get the amount needed in the
> ground without the use of machinery. Ground needs to be prepared with
> mounding and green manure crops for the trees to have their advantage.
> Darren's planter will be a great tool to have but those who have worked on
> large scale tree projects knows that on "fast ground" or wet and boggy
> days, people will still be able to outplant any machine. But with out the
> use of machines you would be lucky to put in 100 a day, let alone 1000's
> that are required.
> Ethical use of what fossil fuels we have left is going to be a tricky
> dilemma for most of us in an age of declining oil.
>
>
>
> > Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 11:11:59 -0700
> > From: jamesdavid Sneed <harvestcircle@hotmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [permaculture] climate change possibly irreversible
> > To: <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> > Message-ID: <SNT131-w2015DCCB387861377EB0A7B2030@phx.gbl>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
> >
> >
> > Good point, Rain. It always seems to surprise me how hung up people get
> > promoting the use of machines to plant, and jets to fly to planting
> > conferences, in order to plant trees to counter the burning of fuels in
> > those machines and jets. Can't the conferences and workshops be online?
> > And maybe if we were hand-planters instead of tractor-jocks we would be
> > spreading a consciousness of intimacy with the earth and its plants
> > instead of bragging about new planting machines.
> >
> > > Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2010 12:26:34 -0700
> > > From: raincascadia@yahoo.com
> > > To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> > > Subject: [permaculture] climate change possibly irreversible
> > >
> > > I really appreciate all the efforts that are being made to find ways to
> > > sequester carbon (Darren Doherty's posts are always inspiring), and
> > > these efforts make sense on a lot of levels, but I just want to put a
> > > reminder out there that we need to pay attention to the latest science
> > > and not get overly optimistic. While they are still duking it out, this
> > > NOAA report from over a year ago denies the possibility of reversing
> > > climate change within any reasonable time frame:
> > >
> > > http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2009/20090126_climate.html
> > >
> > > A new scientific study led by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric
> > > Administration reaches a powerful conclusion about the climate change
> > > caused by future increases of carbon dioxide: to a large extent,
> > > there?s no going back.
> > > The pioneering study, led by NOAA senior scientist Susan Solomon, shows
> > > how changes in surface temperature, rainfall, and sea level are largely
> > > irreversible for more than 1,000 years after carbon dioxide (CO2)
> > > emissions are completely stopped. The findings appear during the week
> > > of January 26 in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.
> > >
> > > Geoengineering to remove carbon dioxide from the atmosphere was not
> > > considered in the study. ?Ideas about taking the carbon dioxide away
> > > after the world puts it in have been proposed, but right now those are
> > > very speculative,? said Solomon.
>
>
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