Skip to Content.
Sympa Menu

permaculture - Re: [permaculture] Fw: New Cumberland BC Cumberlander Article: Howshould the world respond to climate change?

permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: permaculture

List archive

Chronological Thread  
  • From: Toby Hemenway <toby@patternliteracy.com>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Fw: New Cumberland BC Cumberlander Article: Howshould the world respond to climate change?
  • Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 15:48:02 -0800

fdnokes@hotmail.com wrote:
I forwarded the message as it expressed something of relevance and
importance.
I concur that climate change as an issue detracts from the issues that we
ought to be facing.

I may have missed your point, because the article struck me as dishonest. If there was something important I didn't see, I'm open to hearing it. I had a very different reaction.

I'm sure there are people who are truly trying to make up their own minds and who have real questions about climate change, but given the heat of the issue, I can't imagine that by now they don't realize that there are polite ways to be skeptical, and there are inflammatory ways that are asking for argument. The author muddles the difference and uses it to make accusations.

Yes, in climate change debate the underlying issues, as Katey mentioned, can get lost. But as a complement to the bottom-up, "solve the root cause" approach, a lot of people are invested in AGW because they think that if it's proven that it's true, it will give huge momentum toward stopping the root issues like deforestation, etc. If AGW is found false or unprovable, we lose the top-down approach, and that's as useful a tool as bottom-up here. So people are passionate, which makes reasoned discussion hard. Isn't that a predictable pattern? How honest is it to claim to be shocked, shocked to find agendas going on here?

What bothered me was the author's rather slimy stance that he's merely a dispassionate skeptic fighting for rights that are being violated by wicked climate-change fascists. Anyone who recommends Larry Solomon's biased and distorting book either has no capacity to do critical thinking--and maybe that's the case here--or already has their mind made up against AGW and just wants support. So he lost me there (and I have plenty of doubts about AGW models). A large proportion of the scientists that Solomon quotes have protested that their position is opposite to what Solomon's edited versions claims. Several are suing him. The book is a horror show of cherry picking. So the way the CBC author appears to have hidden his own bias behind a human rights screen--"They abuse me when I'm just honestly asking questions"--was repellent to me. Maybe he's an honest skeptic, but I doubt it. I think he's making a disingenuous appeal to freedom of speech and hiding his real agenda.

But really, if there was another point there that I am missing, I am all ears.


Toby
http://patternliteracy.com
I also agree that it is the way that movements are kept down.
You expressed that very well, Katey.
Thanks for your email.
Frances

--------------------------------------------------
From: "katey culver" <newtribe@hughes.net>
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 12:56 PM
To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Fw: New Cumberland BC Cumberlander Article: Howshould the world respond to climate change?

On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 12:46 PM, <fdnokes@hotmail.com> wrote:

I wonder if any of you have had the experience of simply questioning people
about their assumption that global warming is human-caused, only to be
immediately labeled as a "climate change denier" and relegated to the same
category as "holocaust deniers" and their ilk. Yikes! Excuse me for living!

Hey fdnokes,
I had to read your email to my husband because when I read it I half
expected the signature on it to be his. He excuses you!

Sorry to hear the first response you got was more of the same. Not an
attempt at an actual discussion, and possible clearing the air, of the
questions on people's minds.

For myself, I stay away from climate change as an issue because it is
operating under the same framing which has bogged down the ecology and
social justice movements for decades: talking about *symptoms* instead of *
causes*. It is the way that movements are kept down, playing semantic
games.

I prefer to talk about the problems - deforestation, loss of habitat,
toxins, energy use, habits of consumption, trade, etc. - and the options to
address them. No ambiguities here. And addressing causes is where we will
find our options for healing.

blessings,
Katey

--
Katey Culver
www.earthandstraw.com

“Rise like Lions after slumber
In unvanquishable number -
Shake your chains to earth like dew
Which in sleep had fallen on you -
Ye are many - they are few.”
- Percy B. Shelley
_______________________________________________
permaculture mailing list
permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Subscribe or unsubscribe here:
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
Google command to search archives:
site:https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture searchstring



_______________________________________________
permaculture mailing list
permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Subscribe or unsubscribe here:
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
Google command to search archives:
site:https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture searchstring







Archive powered by MHonArc 2.6.24.

Top of Page