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  • From: Jody Troupe <jodyt2@mac.com>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] distilled water
  • Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 11:17:22 -0400

Hello all -

I want to jump back in here, but unfortunately our internet has been down since yesterday. I'm writing a brief blurb while sitting in a coffee shop.

First, I wanted to say I am not supporting all distilled water. Our protocol uses specifically steam-distilled (or sun distilled, I wouldn't split hairs on that). I don't know how other types of distillation are done, I just know that we are very specific about the water used in our methods and it is steam-distilled.

I've read the WHO paper and would need more time to comment. But, one thing that jumped at me right away as a warning flag was the point (pg 3) that listed adding fluoride as being beneficial to a population since they found it reduced dental caries.

What they completely did not point out, that is a well-known fact in scientific & medical circles (particularly those concerned with bone mass because I worked for a company that made bone densitometers for 8 years. I learned this fact in the 90's) is that communities that have fluoridated water have MUCH higher bone fracture rates than those that use any other kind of water. The fluoride in water is a scam, and a really big one at that. I can't elaborate here, but if anyone starts digging in alternative health information, you'll find a lot of negatives to fluoride in the water.

Secondly, in terms of infrastructure, the WHO paper points out that distilled water could not be carried through pipes due to its more aggressive nature as it would break down the very system carrying it to homes. I don't doubt this is true, and is one reason a large organization like WHO is going to look for reasons why distilled water would be an inappropriate option for trying to 'have control' over the water supply. (if you see 'conspiracy' in that, it is meant to be there.)

The science that I practice does actually work, and uses steam- distilled water BUT also incorporates taking mineral supplement (because our foods are so deficient). I cannot say one way or the other if drinking distilled water by itself would draw minerals out of the body. I do think the WHO paper is partial and it would be worth doing your own digging to get to some genuinely independent studies. (good luck).

I already went around this discussion with my instructor in the past and I am still convinced distilled water is perfectly fine. Having worked for a very large company that developed health-related products AND had a pharmaceutical spin-off, AND their own "3rd party" review company (that was to 'independently' review the pharmaceutical studies) I have seen how this stuff works first hand. Since the WHO was citing their own 1980 paper on conclusions about water, I would have to dismiss those references outright. WHO is too big and I won't trust their ultimate allegiance. Then, why they went on to mainly cite Russian and Czech studies but I wondered why there weren't more US- based studies.

The argument about getting calcium from the water, or other nutrients may be a fair comment, but it pisses me off because we should get SO MUCH MORE nutrition if farming were actually done RIGHT. People should get the bulk of their nutrition through the phosphated mineral complexes our foods are supposed to supply to us (because they got it from the soil!).

I am not against other waters: glacial, fresh, whatever, as long as they're clean.


Jody


On Sep 25, 2008, at 6:35 AM, sinergyinaction@netscape.net wrote:


Hi Bruce


thanks for your view on this thread.

I am just thinking that distilled water is now being sold (at least here in Spain) as one of the solutions (along with reverse osmosis) one can buy in the cities in order to have clean potable water.
Do these distilling devices usually have some equipment within them that change the composition of the distilled water in order to make it safe? Since otherwise I do not understand how can they have permission to market them, especially? after having documents like the WHO's, that Steve Read sent earlier, suggesting this kind of water not to be safe in the long run.





Cheers
Antonio


(BTW I think we briefly met each other during APC8 in 2005 down in Melbourne, you were in the organizing committee, weren't you?)


-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Zell <bruce@permaculturenq.com.au>
To: 'permaculture' <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 11:42 am
Subject: Re: [permaculture] distilled water










Hello All

Distilled water might be OK for a while if you were doing a detox or
something but in the long run I don't think its worth the risk. There are a
lot of very subtle tasks that water plays in our bodies in its whole state
and it could be very difficult to detect if minerals etc were being leached
and causing problems. We did some fairly extensive research here in tropical
north Queensland Australia some 25 years ago and we are still drinking
spring water from a mountain side but do plan to put that through a filter
in future. I would go with No 1 below from Toby on this thread



1) one is (Toby's, WHO's) the scientific sort of take, saying (according
to some studies and deduction from nature) that animals and plants don't
usually "drink" distilled water and that distilled water can actually drag?
minerals and other important substances out of? organisms' bodies, thus
depleting them of those vital substances and making them sick in the long
rung if consumed regularly



Cheers

Bruce

Zell & Assoc

Permaculture Services North Queensland









-----Original Message-----
From: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of
sinergyinaction@netscape.net
Sent: Thursday, 25 September 2008 6:20 PM
To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [permaculture] distilled water







Hi,



interesting discussion here.



So Iit seems to me that? there are a couple of different takes on the topic



1) one is (Toby's, WHO's) the scientific sort of take, saying (according to
some studies and deduction from nature) that animals and plants don't
usually "drink" distilled water and that distilled water can actually drag?
minerals and other important substances out of? organisms' bodies, thus
depleting them of those vital substances and making them sick in the long
rung if consumed regularly







2) On the other hand there seem to be another trend based on people own
experiences, drinking either evaporated water or even distilled water,
declaring of having done that for years and still being alive and kicking,
not depleted at all. Even Jody declares that from a scientific point of view
(I gather):



[Jody's quote] "I have heard many times that drinking distilled water can be
harmful

BUT I come from a different perspective. I actually study body

chemistry (includes body pH, but also measures other factors of the

urine & saliva) and our protocol includes exclusively using distilled

water. It is considered higher energy water in terms of bringing

nutrients into the cell. Other waters aren't necessarily bad, but they

have less ability to transport nutrients that are needed because the

molecules are already carrying minerals (not necessarily the ones that

particular body needs to bring in.)



This protocol has been used for decades extremely successfully and

people on it do not experience hair loss, or degenerative diseases

that are often attributed to distilled water in some other articles

I've read. The articles I've seen have not been based on scientific

findings but are conclusions the author came to based on disparate data."

[end of Jody's quote]



quite a few people drinking distilled water seem to have benefitted from it
without

apparently experiencing mayor health problems, accordingto Jody's
experience, which he declares

having some more solid scientific grounds (I am not a scientst by the way!)

SALS3's experience with distilled/evaporated water seems also relevant to
me.

What I find interesting in his view is when he mentions that he (we)
actually obtain most of

our nutrients from the food we eat, so we should be able to compensate their
deficiency in

water. But according to the WHO's paper, some experiments have shown that
even when animals have

been given approriate food while drinking demineralized water, they have
presented mineral

losses.....

So are these two views contradictory? If not how could they be
reconciliated?

And what about the scientifc position expressed in the WHO paper and the
also scientific stance

expressed by Jody?

Is there something WHO scientists have missed out?

All the best

Antonio

































-----Original Message-----



From: Toby Hemenway <toby@patternliteracy.com>



To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>



Sent: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 1:52 am



Subject: Re: [permaculture] distilled water



























Rain water and ice are full of dissolved minerals, organic compounds,



dust, pollen, debris, etc., etc. (see the Designer's Manual on this).



They are not pure water, and a far. far cry from distilled. About the



only occurrence of distilled water in nature is just as water evaporates



from bodies of water and, occasionally, from plants, although most



evapo-transpired water has solutes in it. Within moments, "distilled"



evaporating water picks up all kinds of stuff from its environment.



Ain't no pure in nature.







I don't like city water either. And I agree that stainless and glass



(and maybe fired clay of the right type) are the best vessels for water.



I lived with rainwater catchment for ten years and loved it. But



rainwater is a thick soup compared to distilled.







Toby



http://patternliteracy.com















SALS3 wrote:







the fact that it attracts minerals it don't attract it fills the empty
water



with pipe and plastic and tells me only use glass for my pure water and



stainless steal and should show you the above statement that pure water to




me increases water ability to take away wastes. not pipe because what I
do



is clean the pipe lead out . that's why when you buy water in plastic



containers it taste like plastic because the water is pure not because it



attracts plastic please. it takes up stuff easy like nutrients and
wastes.



oh you need to taste the tea it makes. IMHO rain water you say is pure I



guess that's not nature. ice pure also not nature. hehe give me a brake
.



I get my minerals from what I eat and drink not from the water and you are




right so what. I don't need all the stuff that's in water now days just
to



get the little good. . are you kidding. anyway to each his own.. to me




water water every where not a drop fit to drink. but mine lets talk about




all the bad in water . and most of it is bad. I get letters from the
water



company all the time telling me that water I drank last month tested bad.



how do you undrink last months water after the fact. I have more doubts



about what folks call water than pure water. some folks take the water
out



of rivers where you can't even see your own hand. they fix it up make it



taste like water and give the people that. I have to try and take all the




stuff they put in out and clean it up and out comes water. h2o and pure



water has no taste. if you make it using only the sun and what a natural



thing that is . Natures own water. where the sun draws the water up .
that



is what rain is and I feel this is even cleaner than rain because rain has




to pass through the air that man has also messed up. ever hear of acid



rain. this water does not attract pipe like a magnet it fills the empty



space in pure water and the city is so full of junk it can pass through
the



pipes and not pick as much up . same as when u drink that water its so
full



of stuff it don't pick up and clean you aND instead of cleaning and taking




out waste it leaves you something , fluoride, clorain, lead etc. IMHO
give



me clean water anyday. to each his own. i don't like to take a bath in



city water let alone drink it.















aggressively attracts minerals (it sure sucks them out of pipes and



such) and is thought to deplete the body of minerals if used



extensively. Steve Read's post cites some of the evidence.







There's nothing in nature to suggest that distilled water is good for



animals to drink. Plants and animals live on non-distilled water (and



the biodynamics folks consider distilled water to be dead and thus



harmful to life) so I wouldn't experiment on myself.







Toby



http://patternliteracy.com







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