permaculture

["steveread" <steveread@free.fr>]

Hello, Thomas Allen,

We been addresssing this issue in France. So we have created the Université 
Populaire de Permaculture one of whose remits is to maintain standards in 
Permaculture training. Not just PdC's but also the Diploma. I have had 
situations in the past where I have refused a diploma, because for me they 
didn't meet the requisite standard, only to see them awarded a diploma by 
another instituion in another country, without having changed their 
work/presentation.

So, the PDC and its standard, I believe its generally accepted that after 
gaining the certificate you can lead intro courses, participate at the 
conference part of International and continental PmC convergences, do 
designs. So basically we're not giving huge "rights" to people because they 
doen a PdC. This is not the case with the Diploma, there is a tradition that 
2+ existing diploma holders can accredit someone to diploma. So by awarding 
the latter we are giving the "right" to accredit to Diploma, this corresponds 
a bit to 3rd dan in the Japanese tradition after which people can grade 
someone to 1st Dan, hence the big difference/leap between 2nd and 3rd dan 
(normally).

So PdC is 72 hours minimum of mix theory/practice based on the designers 
manual. Obviously this is insufficient time to cover in depth any particular 
aspect, how could this be otherwise? The smallest aspect touching soils could 
be and often is the basis for a PhD. To keep rpeating the insufficiency of 
time is to repeat the obvious, But as I've pointed out and for us a PdC is 
merely the 1st step. Some will carry on their lives using PmC around the 
house/business, others will take it, set up projects, build create, others 
will want to create and teach and be "professional designers", the Diploma 
route is there for them, 2 years minimum witrh the presentation of a 
Masterpiece at the end that demonstrates thier capacity to, Teach a full 
design course, to design at a high level, a wide grasp of all the different 
aspects of PmC design, that they have made PmC design "theirs".

So here with UPP we insist that a PdC covers all aspects set out in the 1986 
syllabus, filled out by the designers manual, that there is equal emphasis 
over all aspects of the syllabus. I need to pause here 'cause this is a 
problem; there are people who teach PdC's and gloss over the whole aspect of 
community design, economics, invisible structures etc, basically chapter 14 
onwards of the Manual, this for us is completely unacceptable and reinforces 
the idea that PmC is some sort of gardening. Permanent publications brought 
out "The Earthcare Manual", apart from a few pages on building design its all 
about applying PmC to gardening, despite the front page sub-title "A 
permaculture handbook........." This kind of thing isn't helping. Left to 
itself the planet and its systems will simply continue and create abundance, 
its people who are messing it up with our systems. Whoops, bit of a rant 
there. I would expect someone returning home after doing a PdC with me to be 
able to do a PmC design, they will have to research, deepen and widen their 
knowledge base, evolve. They would be able to set up a w/end intro course and 
explain PmC to a general public. They would have some idea of the PmC 
invisible structures/routes that are already in place, for eg the Diploma.    
I also base the awarding of a course completion certficate for the PdC on the 
basis of the quality/depth of the big design projects done during the course.

We need to have some sort of International agreement on standards maybe, or 
maybe simply a blacklist or a whitelist, perhaps we could all train up some 
Buddhist monks (or other who should be uncorruptable and free!!) to wander 
around participating at PdC's to give positive feedback? 

Then I believe it is for each culture to adopt the best of its existing 
systems to facilitate peoples PmC education. Here in France this is the 
traditions of Université Populaire and Les Compagnons de Devoir. Each cultur 
will hold its own records of Diplomas and hopefully present these people on 
the Chaordic institute website. Currentlly and historically I have found it 
extremely difficult to communicate with the different continanetal and 
international insititutions.

SteveR

======= At 2008-05-05, 07:14:27 you wrote: =======

>I too have been thinking about the quality of certification.
>
>I agree that the message needs to get out now and I have put some  
>local instructors on my radio show who I have seen present and who  
>are known to the PC community in the Puget Sound region. In  
>retrospect I guess that's an endorsement although it wasn't intended  
>to be. Far be it from me to be and endorser of instructors.  I too am  
>afraid the message will be corrupted or diluted. If there's money in  
>teaching courses or design it will be corrupted unless there are some  
>standards from an accrediting body.
>
>I have a Design Certificate and I respect and admire the instructors  
>of the 14-day class I took. But, to lay claim to a body of knowledge  
>and skill as broad and deep as Permaculture even after a two-week,  
>intensive course seems a stretch. It seemed thorough, although at the  
>time I had nothing to compare it to. I made some contacts in the  
>class but I wasn't inducted into a society. I didn't serve an  
>apprenticeship like architects and engineers must to get a  
>professional engineer license from the state. So I went home and  
>started to overhaul my quarter-acre suburban lot.
>
>I was surprised to learn from this mail list that there is a  
>Permaculture Institute. Then, doing a web search I discovered there  
>are Permaculture Institutes all around the US. Not just one. So who  
>records that I got a certificate.  Do I send my paper certificate,  
>signed by my instructors to some authority somewhere and get it  
>recorded or get back a guilt edged diploma? What should I hang on my  
>office wall or show perspective clients should I have some one day?
>
>It disturbs me that others with my level of experience presume to  
>teach a PC design course. With my level of experience I wonder if I  
>even qualify as a designer, much less an instructor. It would be nice  
>to be able to say I had the endorsement of a national or  
>international society.
>
>Tom Allen
>thallen at nwlink dot com
>
>
>
>On May 4, 2008, at 5:33 PM, Adam Brock wrote:
>
>> Thanks, Rafter and Claudia, for starting this discussion: the issue of
>> quality control within permaculture is one I've been thinking a lot  
>> about
>> lately in a general way. You might call it "meta-permaculture": how  
>> do we
>> create the conditions under which permaculture itself can spread in a
>> sustained, but not too rapid, manner?
>>
>> I think we've all considered this issue, and many of us have  
>> systems in
>> place for dealing with it, but it doesn't seem like there's total  
>> consensus
>> yet. Now's the time to get there: energy descent has more or less  
>> arrived,
>> the fossil-fueled illusion of material prosperity is beginning to
>> disintegrate, and permaculture concepts are potentially on the  
>> verge of
>> becoming MUCH more attractive to many more people, from  
>> suburbanites to
>> professors to policymakers to the urban poor.
>>
>> It seems to me that we would want all of these people on our team  
>> (we're
>> taught to use and value diversity, no?), but it's a dangerous move  
>> to just
>> "let it happen". For one thing, there's the risk of Permaculture  
>> "blowing
>> up" and then fading into obscurity. As the movement gets more  
>> attractive to
>> urbanites and hence more lucrative, I'm not convinced that we can  
>> continue
>> to rely merely on reputation and word of mouth to determine when  
>> someone is
>> fit to teach. This is, I think, what Rafter was getting at.
>>
>> Second, there are all kinds of potential allies that we might be  
>> missing out
>> on if we're not actively seeking to collaborate with them. If we  
>> really want
>> to see Permaculture help turn around our society, we're gonna to  
>> have to
>> make it accessible to people from a variety of backgrounds,  
>> approaching
>> these issues on THEIR terms.
>>
>> In short, we need to design permaculture's evolution in the  
>> noosphere in the
>> same way we design in the physio- and biosphere: dynamically,
>> collaboratively, thoughtfully, with a mix of science and intuition.  
>> I have
>> plenty more ideas on this topic, and I'm interested to hear yours.  
>> I know
>> that there are a lot of people out there already doing the things  
>> I've just
>> proposed, and I don't want to discount your efforts. Perhaps we  
>> could set up
>> a wiki to brainstorm and share solutions? I'd be happy to get that  
>> going if
>> there seems to be enough interest.
>>
>> - Adam Brock
>> brock@nyu.edu
>> www.thewildgreenyonder.com
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Claudia Joseph <permie@earthlink.net>
>> To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
>> Date: Sun, 4 May 2008 08:18:57 -0400
>> Subject: Re: [permaculture] 9-day PDC???
>> These are good points.  The material extends beyond what was  
>> originally
>> presented in the Designer's Manual.
>>
>> I think one important point is where people go with a certificate  
>> once they
>> have it.  If they are not already well grounded in a field where it  
>> may be
>> applied they need to go practice and keep learning.  I tell all  
>> students
>> that the certificate is a beginning point, not an  end.  One and  
>> two hour
>> workshops are a great way to share and learn in community and that  
>> is one
>> activity I support for course graduates who are super enthusiastic.
>>
>> There was a big rush here in the NE to put up PDCs.  Many people  
>> presenting
>> them have just learned the material themselves. Also, keep in mind  
>> that
>> anyone attending a course gets a certificate (in my experience).  I am
>> extremely strict about attendance but I would guess that not  
>> everyone is.
>>
>> There is no test.
>> I taught permaculture in a college horticulture department and it  
>> was pretty
>> fun making up tests and grading people on the material.  That isn't  
>> what we
>> are doing in the certificate course. Defining what it means to hold a
>> certificate is conceivably part of the curriculum equation.
>>
>> Qualitatively, place matters.  We can dissect the pro's and con's  
>> of models,
>> hands on time and lecture formats while we are at this.   I may add  
>> more
>> field study requirements as a result. of Rafter's question
>>
>> This is a large and important conversation and I am all for us  
>> having it
>> Claudia
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On May 3, 2008, at 9:47 AM, Scott Pittman wrote:
>>
>>> I think you do exactly what you did, alert the community that this
>>> particular course does not meet the standards for a certificate.  The
>>> Permaculture Institute does not recognize those certificates that  
>>> come
>>> from
>>> below standard courses as fulfilling the requirements for diploma
>>> application.
>>>
>>> After having taught hundreds of students around the world I still  
>>> feel
>>> pressed to cover all the material in the requisite 72 hours class  
>>> time and
>>> innumerable hours doing projects and presentations at night.  I don't
>>> think
>>> anyone can give the course justice in less time.  Some teachers  
>>> are going
>>> back to the three week format to insure sufficient time to cover  
>>> the ever
>>> increasing materials like global warming and gmo's.
>>>
>>> Thanks for caring enough to point this out.
>>>
>>> My thoughts,
>>>
>>> Scott Pittman
>>> Director
>>> Permaculture Institute
>>> www.permaculture.org
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
>>> [mailto:permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of  
>>> rafter t.
>>> sass
>>> Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 6:30 PM
>>> To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
>>> Subject: [permaculture] 9-day PDC???
>>>
>>> So...
>>>
>>> What do we do, as a community, when people are teaching a 9-day
>>> permaculture course, and billing it as Permaculture Design
>>> Certificate course?
>>>
>>> This is something we are facing in our region, the northeastern US,
>>> right now. Teachers are coming in from elsewhere in the US, which
>>> makes it trickier - no regional community pressure and  
>>> accountability.
>>>
>>> Any ideas?
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> rafter
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> rafter t. sass
>>> The Liberation Ecology Project
>>> liberationecology.org
>>> 518-567-7407
>>> skype: raughter
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
                        

Best regards.                            
steveread
steveread@free.fr
2008-05-05