permaculture

[Thomas Allen <thallen@nwlink.com>]

I too have been thinking about the quality of certification.

I agree that the message needs to get out now and I have put some  
local instructors on my radio show who I have seen present and who  
are known to the PC community in the Puget Sound region. In  
retrospect I guess that's an endorsement although it wasn't intended  
to be. Far be it from me to be and endorser of instructors.  I too am  
afraid the message will be corrupted or diluted. If there's money in  
teaching courses or design it will be corrupted unless there are some  
standards from an accrediting body.

I have a Design Certificate and I respect and admire the instructors  
of the 14-day class I took. But, to lay claim to a body of knowledge  
and skill as broad and deep as Permaculture even after a two-week,  
intensive course seems a stretch. It seemed thorough, although at the  
time I had nothing to compare it to. I made some contacts in the  
class but I wasn't inducted into a society. I didn't serve an  
apprenticeship like architects and engineers must to get a  
professional engineer license from the state. So I went home and  
started to overhaul my quarter-acre suburban lot.

I was surprised to learn from this mail list that there is a  
Permaculture Institute. Then, doing a web search I discovered there  
are Permaculture Institutes all around the US. Not just one. So who  
records that I got a certificate.  Do I send my paper certificate,  
signed by my instructors to some authority somewhere and get it  
recorded or get back a guilt edged diploma? What should I hang on my  
office wall or show perspective clients should I have some one day?

It disturbs me that others with my level of experience presume to  
teach a PC design course. With my level of experience I wonder if I  
even qualify as a designer, much less an instructor. It would be nice  
to be able to say I had the endorsement of a national or  
international society.

Tom Allen
thallen at nwlink dot com



On May 4, 2008, at 5:33 PM, Adam Brock wrote:

> Thanks, Rafter and Claudia, for starting this discussion: the issue of
> quality control within permaculture is one I've been thinking a lot  
> about
> lately in a general way. You might call it "meta-permaculture": how  
> do we
> create the conditions under which permaculture itself can spread in a
> sustained, but not too rapid, manner?
>
> I think we've all considered this issue, and many of us have  
> systems in
> place for dealing with it, but it doesn't seem like there's total  
> consensus
> yet. Now's the time to get there: energy descent has more or less  
> arrived,
> the fossil-fueled illusion of material prosperity is beginning to
> disintegrate, and permaculture concepts are potentially on the  
> verge of
> becoming MUCH more attractive to many more people, from  
> suburbanites to
> professors to policymakers to the urban poor.
>
> It seems to me that we would want all of these people on our team  
> (we're
> taught to use and value diversity, no?), but it's a dangerous move  
> to just
> "let it happen". For one thing, there's the risk of Permaculture  
> "blowing
> up" and then fading into obscurity. As the movement gets more  
> attractive to
> urbanites and hence more lucrative, I'm not convinced that we can  
> continue
> to rely merely on reputation and word of mouth to determine when  
> someone is
> fit to teach. This is, I think, what Rafter was getting at.
>
> Second, there are all kinds of potential allies that we might be  
> missing out
> on if we're not actively seeking to collaborate with them. If we  
> really want
> to see Permaculture help turn around our society, we're gonna to  
> have to
> make it accessible to people from a variety of backgrounds,  
> approaching
> these issues on THEIR terms.
>
> In short, we need to design permaculture's evolution in the  
> noosphere in the
> same way we design in the physio- and biosphere: dynamically,
> collaboratively, thoughtfully, with a mix of science and intuition.  
> I have
> plenty more ideas on this topic, and I'm interested to hear yours.  
> I know
> that there are a lot of people out there already doing the things  
> I've just
> proposed, and I don't want to discount your efforts. Perhaps we  
> could set up
> a wiki to brainstorm and share solutions? I'd be happy to get that  
> going if
> there seems to be enough interest.
>
> - Adam Brock
> brock@nyu.edu
> www.thewildgreenyonder.com
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Claudia Joseph <permie@earthlink.net>
> To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Date: Sun, 4 May 2008 08:18:57 -0400
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] 9-day PDC???
> These are good points.  The material extends beyond what was  
> originally
> presented in the Designer's Manual.
>
> I think one important point is where people go with a certificate  
> once they
> have it.  If they are not already well grounded in a field where it  
> may be
> applied they need to go practice and keep learning.  I tell all  
> students
> that the certificate is a beginning point, not an  end.  One and  
> two hour
> workshops are a great way to share and learn in community and that  
> is one
> activity I support for course graduates who are super enthusiastic.
>
> There was a big rush here in the NE to put up PDCs.  Many people  
> presenting
> them have just learned the material themselves. Also, keep in mind  
> that
> anyone attending a course gets a certificate (in my experience).  I am
> extremely strict about attendance but I would guess that not  
> everyone is.
>
> There is no test.
> I taught permaculture in a college horticulture department and it  
> was pretty
> fun making up tests and grading people on the material.  That isn't  
> what we
> are doing in the certificate course. Defining what it means to hold a
> certificate is conceivably part of the curriculum equation.
>
> Qualitatively, place matters.  We can dissect the pro's and con's  
> of models,
> hands on time and lecture formats while we are at this.   I may add  
> more
> field study requirements as a result. of Rafter's question
>
> This is a large and important conversation and I am all for us  
> having it
> Claudia
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On May 3, 2008, at 9:47 AM, Scott Pittman wrote:
>
> > I think you do exactly what you did, alert the community that this
> > particular course does not meet the standards for a certificate.  The
> > Permaculture Institute does not recognize those certificates that  
> > come
> > from
> > below standard courses as fulfilling the requirements for diploma
> > application.
> >
> > After having taught hundreds of students around the world I still  
> > feel
> > pressed to cover all the material in the requisite 72 hours class  
> > time and
> > innumerable hours doing projects and presentations at night.  I don't
> > think
> > anyone can give the course justice in less time.  Some teachers  
> > are going
> > back to the three week format to insure sufficient time to cover  
> > the ever
> > increasing materials like global warming and gmo's.
> >
> > Thanks for caring enough to point this out.
> >
> > My thoughts,
> >
> > Scott Pittman
> > Director
> > Permaculture Institute
> > www.permaculture.org
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
> > [mailto:permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of  
> > rafter t.
> > sass
> > Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 6:30 PM
> > To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> > Subject: [permaculture] 9-day PDC???
> >
> > So...
> >
> > What do we do, as a community, when people are teaching a 9-day
> > permaculture course, and billing it as Permaculture Design
> > Certificate course?
> >
> > This is something we are facing in our region, the northeastern US,
> > right now. Teachers are coming in from elsewhere in the US, which
> > makes it trickier - no regional community pressure and  
> > accountability.
> >
> > Any ideas?
> >
> > Best,
> > rafter
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > rafter t. sass
> > The Liberation Ecology Project
> > liberationecology.org
> > 518-567-7407
> > skype: raughter
> >
> >
> >
> >
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> >
> >
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