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  • From: Nathan Czuba <nathanaczuba@yahoo.com>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Christians - was woodstove
  • Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 23:51:34 -0700 (PDT)

So I looked through my copy of the Robert Alter translation of Genesis (Alter
was a professor of Hebrew and Comparative Literature at UC Berkeley, and the
book was published in 1996), and he suggests that it should be "hold sway
over the fish of the sea and the fowl of the heavens and every beast that
crawls upon the earth." He notes that the verb used here, radah, which he
translates as "hold sway," "is not the normal Hebrew verb for 'rule' (the
latter is reflected in 'dominion' of verse 16 [my note: 'And God made the two
great lights, the great light for dominion of day and the small light for
dominion of night, and the stars.']), and in most of the contexts in which it
occurs it seems to suggest an absolute or even fierce exercise of mastery."

Nathan

Dylan Ford <dford@suffolk.lib.ny.us> wrote: Folks - I heard somewhere
recently that a new translation of the Bible is
being done from original source materials which has turned up many
innacurate translations in earlier (the generally accepted) texts. Among
these was the statement (paraphrasing, don't read it much) "Man shall have
dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over
the cattle, and over all the earth and over everything upon the earth." The
current translators said this was a sloppy and imprecise translation, that
it actually read, "Man shall have communion with the fish of the sea, and
with the fowl of the air, and with the cattle, and with all the earth and
with everything upon the earth." Don't know if this is true, but it does
make you wonder.
Dylan Ford is the author of the proposal at www.ideaforpresident.com , a
website devoted to an idea that could provide an avenue to address pollution
issues, food safety, social justice, prison reform and healthcare.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Healing Hawk"
To: "'permaculture'"

Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 4:56 PM
Subject: Re: [permaculture] small cooking woodstove


It's not about writing off Christianity, although I'm not particularly
averse to that option. It's about rejecting the Christian axiom that nature
has no reason to exist save to serve man. If Christianity is taking care of
that, hooray!

I worship nature, after reading Donald Crosby's _A Religion of Nature_. I
watch more and more nature disappear. Every time I go out in Austin,
another wood has been scraped clean for another strip mall or condo
development. That's a result of operating from the belief that nature has
no reason to exist save to serve man.

It's also bare-knuckles corporatism, the thing thousands of US soldiers died
to defeat in WWII. Mussolini said it was corporate power and governmental
power combined.

As far as I can tell, most of both corporate and governmental power holders
today call themselves Christians. Lynn White, jr. could have written today,
I think.

I'm a recovering Southern Baptist and I've no use for that "only way" dogma,
but that's just weird old me. My fiancé still calls herself a Christian but
she doesn't believe in the "only way" dogma, either. We get along.

Tommy Tolson
Austin, TX

-----Original Message-----
From: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Gregory Konger
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 3:23 PM
To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [permaculture] small cooking woodstove

The values of Christianity are not against nature, but for it, to respect
all of God's creation. St. Francis called all creatures his brothers and
sisters. Just recently, Pope Benedict declared on CNN that it is a sin not
to be green. He quoted in my Catholic newspaper that ecology is the key to
understanding why sin is bad, and why we should turn away from it. All
priests practice celebacy and so do I which means we are not contributing to
the problem of overpopulation and other hurtful sexual sins that keeps us
from becoming a sharing community. I believe that the message of Christ in
the BIBLE is very ecological and environmental. In the Gospel it says that
birds neither reap nor sow, but yet the Father still feeds them. Doesn't
that sound ecological? From the messages I read on this board, they share a
lot of the same values that Christ taught. Please do not write off
Christianity.

Greg Konger



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