permaculture

["Kenneth Benway" <ken@arcadiandesign.org>]

Bob, 
        I finally had a chance to read your post. I appreciate hearing
from someone who has life experience with the libertarian party.
        I think the underlying reason the libertarian party is so
fragmented and never will gain traction is because its core values have
to do with freedom and liberty and as such they are not able to focus on
a cohesive political platform. I see the Libertarian values as more of a
philosophy of personal freedom, that philosophy becomes the gatekeeper
in politics for our personal freedom and liberty. 
        I will give you a good example. Ron Paul's political party is
republican, with all of its TRADITIONAL values, not represented in the
main stream republican party at this point in time. His refers to
himself as a libertarian as well. This stance is more about his
alignment with the values of libertarianism, not policy which by
definition libertarianism does not address. 
        What I'm getting to here is that labels can blur and confuse
ones assessment of any individual. I actually consider myself a
libertarian,republican,green,natlaw,anarchist....throw them all in a
blender, pour them through a bullshit detector and keep what comes out
the other end that has any value for me. When I apply my litmus test to
a candidate they must be able to pass thru my bullshit detector. Even if
they get stuck here or there (only minor differences or lack of
understanding)but are reasonable people willing to learn and grow and I
see evidence of that, then I know I have a winner. Someone I can
support, and has a track record of consistency.
        I agree completely that they all need a course in permaculture
design, Especially Ron Paul because it is just about the only missing
component. 

-----Original Message-----
From: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Robert
Waldrop
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 5:08 PM
To: permaculture
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Ron Paul for president of
theUnitedStatesofAmerica

I was a card-carrying member of the Libertarian 
party for 16 years, ran for office 7 times on the 
LP ticket, and I have met Ron Paul personally.  I 
am not a libertarian anymore.  As my understanding 
of permaculture and ecology and justice has 
increased, my "belief" in libertarianism has 
waned.  One problem is the libertarian insistence 
that everything in politics and economics can be 
derived from their so-called non-aggression 
principle.  This idea that there is a "Grand 
Unified Theory of Politics and Economics" is a big 
problem in the first place, because I am highly 
doubtful that there is any such animal.

A second problem is a consistent inconsistency in 
the practical application of libertarian 
philosophies to US politics.  A strict reading of 
libertarian economics would say that limited 
liability corporations are creations of the State 
and should not exist under a libertarian economy 
because they are effectively an artificial grant 
of privilege from the State.  While strict 
libertarians will concede this point, the 
Libertarian political movement has never crusaded 
against corporations qua corporations.

I think libertarians get some issues right, 
because some issues need a libertarian approach. 
Libertarians have always been on the side of the 
angels regarding foreign policy and war, the 
libertarian oriented antiwar.com is one of the 
best anti-war portals on the internet.  Other 
issues should be resolved with liberal principles, 
still others, conservatively, and some  from a 
socialist viewpoint.

But they all could do with a strong dose of 
permaculture design.  There is no 
"one-size-fits-all" design.  Designs are site and 
client specific.  The same is true of approaches 
to political problems, which could be the subject 
of a permaculture design effort. Dogmatic 
libertarians, like dogmatic anythings in the 
political realm (Democrats, Republicans, 
Socialists, etc) look at the world first with 
their political ideology, and they wrestle 
everything to fit into that ideology.  If it 
doesn't fit, they ignore it.

An interesting service the permaculture movement 
could offer would be a series of intensive 
experiences that apply permaculture principles to 
various political problems in an effort, over 
time, to sort out permaculture approaches to the 
big problems and major invisible structures of 
this era.

Bob Waldrop, OKC

PS.  The best online critique of libertarianism is 
http://world.std.com/~mhuben/libindex.html "A 
Non-libertarian FAQ".

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kenneth Benway" <ken@arcadiandesign.org>
To: "'permaculture'" 
<permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 9:38 AM
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Ron Paul for president 
of the UnitedStatesofAmerica


> Lawrence,
> The answer to this is really quite simple. Go to 
> the following website
> and read the article on the home page.
> http://invisiblepatriots.com/web2/Democracy.html
> Ron Paul is a libertarian republican. Need I say 
> more?
> I look forward to your response.
> Ken
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
> [mailto:permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] 
> On Behalf Of Lawrence F.
> London, Jr.
> Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 10:22 AM
> To: permaculture
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Ron Paul for 
> president of the United
> StatesofAmerica
>
> Kenneth Benway wrote:
>
> <...>
>
> Why aren't you supporting Democratic candidates 
> such as Joe Biden, John
> Edwards,
> Bob Kerry, Bill Richardson? All excellect 
> choices for president. Why
> didn't Paul join
> the Democratic Party? Why did he ally himself 
> with a party containing
> such odius notables
> as Alphonse DAmato, Trent Lott, Brownback, 
> Romney and the like when he
> could have joined forces
> with a party containing people with 
> intelligence?
>
>
> -- 
> Lawrence F. London, Jr.
> Venaura Farm
> lfl@intrex.net
> http://market-farming.com
> http://market-farming.com/venaurafarm
> http://venaurafarm.blogspot.com/
> http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech
>
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