permaculture

[Karen Potts <karen_potts@yahoo.com>]

Ken, you make two statements in your reply to Tommy.
   
  "As for Dr. Paul being a "wealthy ultraconservative Physician Libertarian:" 
first, labels separate (conquier and divide us).
   
  and
   
  "One last note, Ron Paul ran for president as a Libertarian candidate in 
1988 and placed third. He was burned by the two party monopolies.  He is 
commited to eliminatings lawas put in place by the Democratic and Republican 
parties designed to hinder third party access to the election process.
   
  Karen writes:  
   
  Why not go all the way and eliminate parties?  As in a party with its label 
the candidate within is supposed to promote the position of that party.
   
  Granted, we would have to use our critical thinking skills to decipher the 
platform of each individual running for President.  So I must ask us all to 
consider, Are we a Cliff Note/American Idol mentality that feeds right out of 
the feed bag that our government straps to our face OR, do we pledge 
allegiance to a flag of the USA and to the Republic, for which it stands, 
   
  one nation... 
   
  Abolish parties AND electoral college.  
   
  Sincerely,
   
  Karen Potts 
   
   
  
Kenneth Benway <ken@arcadiandesign.org> wrote:
  Tommy, 
Thank you for taking the time to respond to this thread. I
appreciate the opportunity to ponder your comments. I respect your right
to express yourself, but I do question some of your ideas. It is my hope
that my responses are welcomed by you in this same light:

Tommy states:

"I live in Texas, I'm somewhat familiar with Ron Paul from roughnecking 
on oil rigs in his Congressional district some years ago, and I would 
vote for the common fascists running as Republicans a long time before 
voting for Dr. Paul, a wealthy ultraconservative physician Libertarian 
whose political project embodies the social values of a 17-year-old 
boy."

Ken's response:

It is disturbing to me to read that you would vote for a continuation of
the Iraq war and support a platform that includes a preemptive nuclear
strike on Iran, a country that is not a threat to the United States.
These precepts are to me quite antithetical to Permaculture. These are
remarks one would expect to hear perhaps from Rush Limbaugh or on a Sean
Hannity Blog, but baffling to me to read on a Permaculture site. Ron
Paul was the only Republican in the House to vote against the (illegal)
war in Iraq, thus it is consistent for him to state that if elected he
would begin an immediate withdrawal of troops. He also would reverse the
trend by closing down all 735 plus military bases throughout the globe.
He supports a non-interventionist foreign policy. 
As for Dr Paul being a "wealthy ultraconservative physician
Libertarian:" first; labels separate (conquer and divide us) and
secondly I suggest we really try to understand the power that words
have, despite your proclivity toward cynicism and intent to mock. Some
questions about your words:

1.)Are you implying that 'wealth' in of itself is inherently evil? 
2.)Are you implying that all 'physicians' are bad? 
3.)Are you aware that the term 'Libertarian' originates from the word
liberty, meaning tolerance, broadmindedness and individual sovereignty? 
4.)Are the ideals and social values of all or most "17 yr old boys"
without merit? I actually know of several 17 yr olds that are in fact
dedicated Permaculture activists. 

Tommy states:

"Yes, he opposes the war in Iraq, but WHY? On what grounds?"

Ken's response:

Because the manner in which we invaded Iraq is a clear violation of the
Constitution. The Constitution is not perfect, but our founding fathers
were wise enough to allow it to be improved by what are called
amendments. Article V actually provides for the creation of a
Constitutional Convention where we could actually replace the existing
Constitution with a different one. How cool is that?
Green Party Platform = New Constitution. Before we trash it though, why
not see how living by the original one works? 

Tommy states: 

"He may advocate policies that sound good, on their surface, but the
most minimal scratch beneath that surface reveals an unconsidered
agenda. Articulation is not proof of consideration." 

Ken's response: 

Lack of articulation is proof of lack of consideration.

Tommy states:

"The ecological wisdom from which permaculture arises is absent from
Libertarianism. Libertarian dogma sets free every antisocial motivation
one can think up, legitimizing social chaos in the name of some
half-baked idea about liberation that fails moderately rigorous
inquiry."

Ken's response:

Yes, the first part of this statement is true. To then in the same
sentence compare the apples of Permaculture to the oranges of dogmatic
Libertarianism makes no sense to me. As we all know, the definitions of
Permaculture are as varied as the individuals who express them. The
definition of Libertarianism, on the other hand is: "To allow for
maximum expression of the individual for personal freedom and liberty to
the extent that it causes no harm to another individual." I see no
conflict. But what thinking person, particularly a person cognizant
enough to understand Permacluture would consider "legitimizing social
chaos in the name of"...anything? I don't understand your meaning,
except to warn that cynicism is like a cancer that ultimately will
alienate one even to oneself.



Tommy states:

"Liberation, as Paulo Freire taught in /Pedagogy of the Oppressed/,
occurs as a result of praxis, a conscious practice of taking action,
reflecting on that action, taking another action based upon that
reflection, and continuing the process until liberation is realized.
Freire, a Brazilian, was a man of the same sort as the creators of
Permaculture, a man of careful, informed thought. Praxis and
Libertarianism have nothing in common save words themselves."

Ken's response: 

What does this have to do with an attempt to demonstrate Ron Paul's lack
of qualification for president? I go by my experience and I have
observed and felt Ron Paul's thoughtful processes in the face of debate.
His responses indicate to me that he is a champion of "a conscious
practice of taking action, reflecting on that action, taking another
action based upon that reflection, and continuing the process until
liberation is realized".

Tommy states:

"Permaculture concerns observing the land to learn its lessons. 
Libertarianism concerns loosing monster boy (immature Warrior archetype)
frat rats to ravage the land. In other words, we get a deepening of the
ubiquitous ecological and social destruction of the current illegitimate
junta sitting in power over the people, if Dr. Paul is elected
President. I caution people to observe Libertarian dogma carefully
before thinking about endorsing this thought-challenged man or his
policies."

Ken's response: 

Having already addressed the lack of understanding of the term
libertarianism, I will take this opportunity to address one of the
biggest concerns of the libertarian philosophy which has to do with the
right of property ownership at the expense of the environment. If in
fact an individual's lack of care for a specific property were such that
it had a negative impact on the adjacent property then by definition
that individual would be violating the rights and liberty of the
adjacent property owner. A community dynamic that supported the rights
of the violated would arise to the occasion and hold the violator in
check.

Tommy states: 

"70% of the US population has never stepped foot in a college classroom,
thus never encountered Logic, Ethics, or Rhetoric. This is a matter of
policy. The ruling elite of which Dr. Ron Paul is a member saw in
California what happens when the state offers free college educations.
Where the average US citizen read on a 10th grade level in 1970, they
now read on a 6th grade level. Creating the most ignorant electorate in
the industrial world benefited someone. The Presidential ambitions of
Ron Paul certainly benefit. No one possessing even the most vague
familiarity with ecological wisdom would consider voting for what he
represents, in my opinion."

Ken's response: 

This statement addresses the failure of the state controlled education
system to create critically thinking, creative individuals who can
contribute to society in a meaningful and productive way. On this point
I agree. An excellent book that addresses this tragedy is John Taylor
Gatto's "The Underground History of American Education" He is the
leading advocate for home schooling in the country, a great read that I
highly recommend. As far as Ron Paul's position on public education, he
would abolish it completely and thus eliminate the dysfunctional nature
of its monopoly, saving the taxpayers billions of dollars and turning it
over to the free market economy. My kids would be going to a Waldorf
school, Steiner's model for education. Permaculture, as well as
Biodynamic agriculture would be an integral part of the curriculum. 

Tommy states:

"I'm an educated Green who votes Democratic as long as there are only
two national political parties in the US with a prayer of governing. 
Actually, that's one, as the Republican Party, representing a minority 
of the US electorate (perhaps as low as 12% of the eligible voting 
population, considering 50% don't vote), seeks to rule rather than to 
govern."

Ken's response: 

I'm an educated human being who values individual freedom and thinks
critically. My education is the result of my 56 years of life experience
on this planet. My vote is one of conscience and this time it is for the
individual who I think best represents my values, period. I support Ron
Paul for President of the United States primarily due to his unwavering
stand for the Constitution as rule of law. His voting record in the U.S.
House of Representatives supports this assertion. Do not take my word
for it. Check him out for yourself. Dig deeply, find out the truth for
yourself, and then choose. Above all, please don't let anyone do your
thinking for you, including me. Trust in your own powers of observation
and conscience. Put dogma, party label loyalties, and religions aside
please. Our Republic and our individual liberties are at stake, now more
than ever. Ron Paul's candidacy is about a non-violent, peaceful
revolution that is well planned and executed, returning us to the rule
of law which last I checked is the United States Constitution! Please
make no mistake about that. 

P.S. One last note, Ron Paul ran for president as a libertarian
candidate in 1988 and placed third. He was burned by the two party
monopolies. He is committed to eliminating laws put in place by the
Democratic and Republican Parties designed to hinder third party access
to the election process, and has stated so publicly. The Republican
Party has asked him to leave the party on numerous occasions. What does
that say about Ron Paul?

Sincerely,
Ken Benway
Arcadian Design
St Petersburg Fl
www.kenbenway.com




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