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  • From: Claudia Joseph <permie@earthlink.net>
  • To: "E. E. Mitchamore Jr" <emitch@att.net>, permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Culture vs. Mother
  • Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 14:02:05 -0400

Hey. I'm just reading an article on the Donner Party in New Yorker magazine. Survival is in the public consciousness these days, particularly in the city. . . oil descent is coming just in time to inform us about global warming. Growing food is one of my most visible actions. I'm doing it under-the-radar as a "historical, educational model". Useful and edible plants are the future landscape looking back at the past. Life is full of surprises.
Don't eat each other.
Claudia, in Brooklyn


On Apr 21, 2006, at 7:39 PM, E. E. Mitchamore Jr wrote:

Clearly you have given this matter much thought. I don't see such thoughtfulness as I drive around the freeways of Austin. I do hope I'm wrong, but it looks as if "hard times" are going to be a surprise to most and, judging from their general behavior, I don't think it will be a peaceful transition. Most people I encounter appear to be severely stressed as it is.

E. E. "Mitch" Mitchamore
www.hillcountrynatives.biz
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Waldrop
To: permaculture
Sent: Friday, April 21, 2006 3:16 PM
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Culture vs. Mother


My first comment about this is why do you assume
there will be a breakdown in "law, order, and
civility"? I'm guessing this is in response to
"peak oil catastrophism", but the future is not
determined and fixed as being "Mad Max
Thunderdome". The future is created, one decision
at a time, by myriads of people over long periods
of time. I know there are any number of people in
the peak oil movement who are predicting the
imminent arrival of a war of all against all, but
I tend to think that says more about how they see
themselves and other human beings than it does
about what the future will really be like.

I think peak oil is a hazard, but the situation is
much more complex than Kunstler and other
doom-mongers make it out to be. I am the
moderator and listowner of
runningonempty2@yahoogroups.com , which has nearly
7,000 members, and has been discussing peak oil
since 2001. I have read every one of the 35,000+
messages in our archives on the subject, and I am
not at all persuaded that the Lord Humungous is
waiting in the wings to rush in and murder my
pacifist self and steal my organic peaches. I do
not own any guns, and don't expect to own any
guns.

I don't pretend to know how we are going to muddle
our way through this, because I don't think it is
the kind of thing that anybody can either predict
or even design (in terms of the society as a
whole). I think individuals and small groups can
design interesting and useful descent patterns
that can be replicated elsewhere, and this can
have an impact on our political arrangements. It
could go synergy or dysergy, and all that we can
do right now is work as hard as we came to make
the future intensification of energies be in a
positive way.

I think there are some who are positively looking
forward to the catastrophic deaths of five billion
human beings, but I don't think that those people
have really thought through the implications of
the violent death of 80% of the human race, not
only for human beings, but for all of the other
creatures and living beings we share this planet
with. It would be much easier on them if we can
manage to avoid a catastrophic die-off of the
human species.

I believe firmly in self fulfilling prophecies,
those are the best kind. I am trying to make sure
that the self fulfilling prophecies I am
"self-fulfilling" are positive and full of life
and beauty and wisdom and goodness and hope. The
endless preaching of catastrophic and violent doom
is also a self-fulfilling prophecy, but I think we
should beware of self-fulfilling those kinds of
prophecies.

Bob Waldrop, OKC

----- Original Message -----
From: "E. E. Mitchamore Jr" <emitch@att.net>
To: "permaculture"
<permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Friday, April 21, 2006 1:04 PM
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Culture vs. Mother



I haven't been studying Permaculture very long,
so such discussions raise a question to my mind:
Will the probable breakdown of law, order, &
civility allow any of us to peacefully practice
what we believe?

E. E. "Mitch" Mitchamore
www.hillcountrynatives.biz


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