permaculture

["Forest Garden" <forestgarden@gvtc.com>]

There is already a breakdown of law, order, and civility (here in the US for
those of you in other countries).  Do you really think the legal system is
fair or working - at any level from the local JP to the Supreme Court?  Who
do the police serve? - certainly not the public good.  The laws churned out
by the US Gov't clearly si overrun by larger, profit oriented, entites.
They call it corruption in other places.  This list is peppered with calls
for action to stop crazy legislation.

How it will all come to pass no one knows.  While I am optimistic and
hopeful that we can collectively scale down, I see only small token signs of
that happening.  The average person is simply trying to make ends meet and
has no clue.  There are many good solutions, most of them take time and
energy to get in place.  Even something as simple as growing your own food
takes a good decade to fully develop.  Is there enough time and energy left?
(not to mention organic matter and seeds and water).  The wake-up call came
in the 70's.  And what happened?

In the natural world I regularly see population crashes whenever a species
over-extends itself on food or water supplies, and then those supplies
tighten up or disappear.  Being human does not exempt us from this basic
cycle, although we have been quite amazing at prolonging the inevitable.
What is a sustainable carrying capacity of the Earth for humans without
oil-subsidized corn, wheat, and soy?  I don't know.  But I sincerely doubt
it is 6 billion.

In the US we have let the authorities have a monopoly on violence for so
long, we think it is not possible here.  Yet there is a constant supply of
it in the news, on t.v., in moveis, games, etc.  I am guessing the
population is still more than capable of it.  What will people do when they
get hungry, or hot, or cold, and they realize it ani't temporary?  I don't
know.

Yes, there are small pockets of intelligent people working hard to create
positive changes.  And no doubt there will be some increable manifestations
of cooperation and community that to come together and work things out in a
peaceful way.  But in all honesty, and when I look at the harsh reality of
resources available, and the large, over-weight, medicated,
entertainment-oriented, urbanized, and armed population...  well.  It ani't
pretty.  And I certainly understand why it is so hard of a picture to look
at and comprehend as happening in your lifetime.  Much less in a few years
from now.

Sincerely wishing everyone the best life possible!

Marjory








----- Original Message -----
From: "E. E. Mitchamore Jr" <emitch@att.net>
To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Friday, April 21, 2006 6:39 PM
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Culture vs. Mother


> Clearly you have given this matter much thought.  I don't see such
thoughtfulness as I drive around the freeways of Austin.  I do hope I'm
wrong, but it looks as if "hard times" are going to be a surprise to most
and, judging from their general behavior, I don't think it will be a
peaceful transition.  Most people I encounter appear to be severely stressed
as it is.
>
> E. E. "Mitch" Mitchamore
> www.hillcountrynatives.biz
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Robert Waldrop
>   To: permaculture
>   Sent: Friday, April 21, 2006 3:16 PM
>   Subject: Re: [permaculture] Culture vs. Mother
>
>
>   My first comment about this is why do you assume
>   there will be a breakdown in "law, order, and
>   civility"?  I'm guessing this is in response to
>   "peak oil catastrophism", but the future is not
>   determined and fixed as being "Mad Max
>   Thunderdome".  The future is created, one decision
>   at a time, by myriads of people over long periods
>   of time. I know there are any number of people in
>   the peak oil movement who are predicting the
>   imminent arrival of a war of all against all, but
>   I tend to think that says more about how they see
>   themselves and other human beings than it does
>   about what the future will really be like.
>
>   I think peak oil is a hazard, but the situation is
>   much more complex than Kunstler and other
>   doom-mongers make it out to be.  I am the
>   moderator and listowner of
>   runningonempty2@yahoogroups.com , which has nearly
>   7,000 members, and has been discussing peak oil
>   since 2001.  I have read every one of the 35,000+
>   messages in our archives on the subject, and I am
>   not at all persuaded that the Lord Humungous is
>   waiting in the wings to rush in and murder my
>   pacifist self and steal my organic peaches.  I do
>   not own any guns, and don't expect to own any
>   guns.
>
>   I don't pretend to know how we are going to muddle
>   our way through this, because I don't think it is
>   the kind of thing that anybody can either predict
>   or even design (in terms of the society as a
>   whole).  I think individuals and small groups can
>   design interesting and useful descent patterns
>   that can be replicated elsewhere, and this can
>   have an impact on our political arrangements.  It
>   could go synergy or dysergy, and all that we can
>   do right now is work as hard as we came to make
>   the future intensification of energies be in a
>   positive way.
>
>   I think there are some who are positively looking
>   forward to the catastrophic deaths of five billion
>   human beings, but I don't think that those people
>   have really thought through the implications of
>   the violent death of 80% of the human race, not
>   only for human beings, but for all of the other
>   creatures and living beings we share this planet
>   with.  It would be much easier on them if we can
>   manage to avoid a catastrophic die-off of the
>   human species.
>
>   I believe firmly in self fulfilling prophecies,
>   those are the best kind.  I am trying to make sure
>   that the self fulfilling prophecies I am
>   "self-fulfilling" are positive and full of life
>   and beauty and wisdom and goodness and hope.  The
>   endless preaching of catastrophic and violent doom
>   is also a self-fulfilling prophecy, but I think we
>   should beware of self-fulfilling those kinds of
>   prophecies.
>
>   Bob Waldrop, OKC
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: "E. E. Mitchamore Jr" <emitch@att.net>
>   To: "permaculture"
>   <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
>   Sent: Friday, April 21, 2006 1:04 PM
>   Subject: Re: [permaculture] Culture vs. Mother
>
>
>   >I haven't been studying Permaculture very long,
>   >so such discussions raise a question to my mind:
>   >Will the probable breakdown of law, order, &
>   >civility allow any of us to peacefully practice
>   >what we believe?
>   >
>   > E. E. "Mitch" Mitchamore
>   > www.hillcountrynatives.biz
>
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