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  • From: Martin Naylor <martinwnaylor@yahoo.com.au>
  • To: "E. E. Mitchamore Jr" <emitch@att.net>, permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] question for list members: is a formalnetiquette guide for the PC list desired?
  • Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 18:56:15 +1100 (EST)

Hi
I went to school to play around, i had very little interest in the
education scene [why i do not know i was only 5 at the beginning]. But now i
know, the education system is built to turn out robots.
I forgot to use spell check the grammar is entirely my fault.
I am also an unemployable beach bum[ I refuse to work unless it is ethical
moral and sustainable] who used to work as a miner and a brickies labourer
[born in England so there are different spellings to America], to get any
dumber then a labourer you have to scrape the bottom of the barrel.


let's try and find out what you did not understand.

Okay we are two minds looking at a situation we are not in competition we
are looking observing to see what is false and find out what is true or not

Our minds are made of thoughts
Thoughts are the result of sensations
Words are the result of verbalising these thoughts
From these thoughts and verbalisation's desire is created I want this i
don't want that, this also eventuates to fear
This is the origin of the I

This has to be understood by the individual, he can not learn it from any
other source, it has to be understood from observation of thought from here
you can gain wisdom.

"Meanings" Thought is the only thing that can make this statement. [It
doesn't matter which mind made the statement it is still thought].

Death can never be known, until you are dead

Thought [psychological] has been playing this game since we dropped out of
the trees. [that is when we first started to develop a human brain as
distinct from an animal brain]. Thought is impermanent so to create
permanency it creates the thinker, the controller, the actor. This is still
thought creating this situation. It is false, there is nothing permanent, If
you have life you must have death. This needs to be understood, but what does
thought do, it creates cultures and religions to escape the fact, cultures
are created for other reasons as well usually from fear of other humans [who
are the same, they have consciousness and a capacity for thought]

So we have the origin thought above, and from these thoughts we develop
memory, and base or present and future on these false thoughts, such
ridicules things as fighting for freedom,[freedom like love is a state that
must have been present at the creation of the Universe].
Total Failure, we are presently looking at the destruction of the vast
majority of lie forms on earth [this is no big deal it has happened in the
past the last time being 80,000 years ago.]
Psychological thought is of no use at all, my wife did this last week, the
week before, last year, and the argument drags on. instead of dealing with
situations as they happen we are left creating images and dealing in images
[images of the wife doing this doing that]
We are not images we are creative evolving living beings.
Memory is of use in work and communicating only
Memory is of no use psychologically
If you are in this state then you are operating from love and freedom.
You can operate from here only if you understand the use of thought, if you
do not then thought will step right back in and controll you.

Observe your own thoughts as you are reading this [exactly what are you
thinking now, what a nut case this bloke is?] what ever it is you are
becoming aware of thought, and the thinker which is created by thought.
This is true or false, again your mind is the only one that can understand
this you can not be told this by anyone when you understand this then you are
your own authority, you understand.
Zone 0, permaculture evolves in zones, zone 0 is the home zone 1 immediate
use etc

This is not philosophy this is observation of thought.

"Stand hand in hand and together we will stand on the threshold of a dream"
- The Moody Blues

Martin



"E. E. Mitchamore Jr" <emitch@att.net> wrote:
I apologize in advance, because some of this post is critical. Not of the
individual below, but of the "attitude" (maybe not a good word) his language
illustrates. I do recognize that every special-interest group has its own
language, but I have to question the motives behind the language.

If the purpose of Permaculture is to develop small closed groups that can
survive the coming crises, a special language is fine.

If the purpose of Permaculture is to develop methods that help all species
and individuals to survive, then the language MUST be understood by truck
drivers, waiters, clerks, ditch diggers, etc., who, with their votes and
dollars, make far-reaching decisions.

If I have no idea what is being said, like below, I cannot act on it. Also,
capitalization, spelling and punctuation can be ignored if self-expression is
your goal. If COMMUNICATION is your goal, you should adhere to the principles
of good writing that are commonly accepted and understood. If you "define
your own meaning", your neighbor won't understand you. If he doesn't
understand you, he will probably oppose you. Where does that get you?

All of this is just another way of saying that we need to preach to the
masses, rather than to each other, if we want real change. Please dumb it
down so I can understand you - I want to learn from you.

E. E. "Mitch" Mitchamore
www.hillcountrynatives.biz
----- Original Message -----
From: Martin Naylor
To: permaculture
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 1:47 AM
Subject: Re: [permaculture] question for list members: is a formalnetiquette
guide for the PC list desired?


Hi
"We are forced to define our own meanings"
Who said so, thought is the only thing that could, and in most cases out of
fear of the unknown which is something that can never be known, things like
death

Humans have been doing this since they dropped out of the trees [well thought
has been playing these games]
through every tribe culture and religion including the present day
So what you have is thought which is entirely built on the past [memory]
creating the present and projecting into the future with total failure [well
it will be shortly for the vast majority]
If we could except thought as useful for work and communication and be in the
ever changing moment then we are at the beginning the journey and the end
simultaneously
and there is nothing stoping you until thought jumps back in to assert it's
dominance [observe your own thoughts as your reading and when you finish]
this is either true or false
I guess this is zone 0 [home] in permaculture terms
Martin

"Lawrence F. London, Jr." wrote:

Is list consensus that a netiquette guide for the PC list
homepage should be created or is an anarcho-unregulated freethinking
eschatological* existential* mode preferred?

* http://www.arcosanti.org/theory/glossary/eschat.html
Paolo Soleri's Glossary of Terms
Eschatological Hypothesis
"An hypothesis framed in the propostion that a meaningful end is in the realm
of the possible and definitely in the
realm of the desirable. The hypothesis sees the resolution of the becoming
(of reality) into Omega Seed , that is, into
the reawakening of all the past in a state of total self revelation.
Since the truth is in the making (it is not a given) for the obvious reason
that reality itself is in the making and the
reality is the only arbiter, in fact the only "definer" of the truth (if it
is), the eschatological end is not
pre-defined, preordained, predestined, predesigned (all of those are from the
realm of mandate from above). Therefore
the hypothesis has no guarantee tags in the sense of what and why. The
grassroots procedure is the one that might
develop the Howness conducive to the slow emergence of the what and why, that
is, of what the desirable could be."

* http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist
"Existentialism attempts to describe our desire to make rational decisions
despite existing in an irrational universe.
Unfortunately, life might be without inherent meaning (existential atheists)
or it might be without a meaning we can
understand (existential theists). Either way, the human desires for logic and
immortality are futile. We are forced to
define our own meanings, knowing they might be temporary."




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