permaculture

[Bill McDorman <bm@seedsave.org>]

Probably the best coverage of this idea that all we have to do is apply our
hearts and knowledge and hard work to fix those left out of the prosperous
world is a rather recent science fiction book written by a scientist.

The Sparrow, by Mary Doria Russell

Her story is about Jesuits who try to help the underclass on the first
populated planet discovered by earthlings.  The story helps to clarify just
how many assumptions we make when treading on new cultural ground,
assumptions that may lead us to shocking places if we don't pay attention.

A great read.  Great characters.  Powerful message.  This thread would be
much different if its contributors had even a little of Mary's humility.

bill

on 9/16/05 7:40 PM, Adam Donnison at adam@saki.com.au wrote:

> I too am disturbed by this thread.  There are a number of issues
> that really have me worried. There seems to me to be an awful
> number of people, and a large concentration of them within the
> Permaculture movement, that feel that formal education is the
> holy grail and we should all be qualified teachers in order to
> educate others.  This is patently ridiculous.  Formal education
> offers something only to those who can afford it and are of
> the mindset that can accept that sort of structure.  It is this
> description of educated vs. ignorant that results from this
> thinking.  Much like the platitudes of "the poor will always
> be with us" and the suggestion that starving people somehow
> have chosen to starve, I find this disturbing.
> 
> We learn by different methods, at different times, under different
> conditions. But mostly we learn by doing, and we learn by observation
> and helping others.
> 
> Think about this - how did you learn to speak?  Was it
> by someone "educating" you, or was it more as a process of being
> surrounded by words and a desire to be understood?  It was probably
> the latter, with a little of the former to tidy up the rough edges.
> 
> I'm not saying that "education" is a bad thing, what I am saying
> is that by saying that we, the "educated", need to take on the
> mission of teaching them, the "ignorant" will result in the
> same sort of problems that colonialism embodies.   It is nothing
> more than mere arrogance.
> 
> Adam
> 
> Graham wrote:
>> The more I see this header 'Re: [permaculture] Educating the ignorant'
>> the more deeply disturbed I feel by it.
>> 
>> The more I look into myself the more I realise how deeply ignorant and
>> uneducated I am.
>> 
>> Carrie Shepard wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> <<<The first step might be to abandon the mindsets that you have a role as
>>> an 'educator' or that the people you propose to interact with are
>>> 'ignorant'.>>>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Isn't this the age-old 'snag' of applying one's values to the rest of the
>>> world?   I'm just now reading Out of Africa and Dennison gives a lot of
>>> stories of how differently the natives think about things than the 
>>> english,
>>> and also how they respect her opinion on some things.
>>> 
>>> I happen to be a follower of the way, and believe the poor will always be
>>> with us.  Progress as a value/goal for society is one of those humanistic
>>> lies I think, though I'd love for everyone to live comfortably and have
>>> enough food and clothing, there will always be those who have free will to
>>> NOT receive those basic promises.
>>> 
>>> Blessings,
>>> 
>>> Carrie
>>> 
> 

              __o
            _'\<,_
___________(_)/ (_)_______________
Bill W.  McDorman
Seeds Trust, High Altitude Gardens
PO Box 596
Cornville, AZ 86325
928.649.3315
bm@seedsave.org
http://www.seedstrust.com