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  • From: Loren Davidson <listmail@lorendavidson.com>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: [permaculture] Mailing list gotchas was Re: New List
  • Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 12:01:57 -0800

At 10:18 AM 3/25/05 -0800, Toby Hemenway wrote:
On 3/25/05 4:52 AM, "Greg" <FarmerGreg@UrbanFarm.org> wrote:

> There are also the people that have been booted from the list for
> expressing their opinions (Michael being one of them, did you know he
> is no longer on this list)

I'm glad that this is out in the open. I'd like to have a better
understanding of what behavior is prohibited from this list.

I agree that a good set of guidelines on what is and isn't acceptable here, published occasionally, sent to all new subscribers, and posted on the listserv Website would be an excellent idea.

OTOH, as I've been exploring in private email with Greg, people can be dropped from mailing lists for no obvious reason at all, and with no action taken on the part of the list.owner.

I have run several Mailman-based lists, and continue to help run one. I know quite a bit about how Internet mail and mailing list software works. What I say here is based on that knowledge, which is independent of whom I might agree with in any particular discussion on this or any other mailing list.

There are basically two main reasons why someone might get dropped from a mailing list involuntarily:

1) They do something fuggheaded and get their email address deleted by the list.owner (or their designated assistant) and/or added to the "banned" list within Mailman.

2) Email to their account bounces, and Mailman deletes the email address automatically.

I have yet to see anything from a direct party to this that explicitly says that we've got a case of Reason Number One, i.e. someone received or saw email indicating that Michael or anyone else was specifically deleted because of something they said.

There are likewise several reasons why a post to a mailing list never comes back out the other side and lands in your box:

1) Internet mail loses it before it gets to the listserv.

2) Internet mail loses it after it goes through the listserv, but before it gets to you.

3) Your mail is tagged for review and held based on one or another of a set of criteria which can be configured in Mailman. These criteria include: Matching a specific email address. Matching a partial email address. Matching, in whole or in part, a specific subject line.

If 1 or 2 happen, your post doesn't get to you and you never find out why. If 3 happens, Mailman automatically generates a "your mail has been held" message. Absent that message, your mail is *not* being held and deleted by the list.owner.

Yes, even paranoids have enemies, and if they really *are* out to get you it's not paranoia. :) But I think we need to all be careful about jumping to conclusions based on insufficient data - on mailing lists as well as in our designs. Let's apply the same "observe before acting" principle to our Internet life as to our gardens and communities.

Build soil,

Loren

Loren Davidson Earth steward, healer, singer/songwriter
listmail@lorendavidson.com http://www.earthspring.org/loren/
I'm a musician too! http://www.lorendavidson.com
"In gentleness there is great strength." - Sun Bear




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