Skip to Content.
Sympa Menu

permaculture - Re: [permaculture] permie politics

permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: permaculture

List archive

Chronological Thread  
  • From: Dennis Argall <dennisargall@bigpond.com>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] permie politics
  • Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 12:09:26 +1100

you are welcome, Graham! You see from my citation that it is, in any case, a quote from the inside front of a community organisation paper from these people:
http://www.pew-partnership.org/resources.html

best wishes

Dennis
==
On Thursday, March 10, 2005, at 05:17 AM, Graham Burnett wrote:

Hi Dennis- mind if I forward that link to some other contacts and lists I'm
on? It's great!

Cheers Graham

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis Argall" <dennisargall@bigpond.com>
To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 4:29 AM
Subject: Re: [permaculture] permie politics


Just a couple of comments on all this...

I like DA's comments on co-operation and interdependence, and I think
it important to regard community building as a top priority here in
such a group as well as among plants and physical structures.

I have found it helpful in actual communities as well as online to draw
on these principles I have put in a one page pdf document at my web
site:
http://aplaceof.info/healthyunhealthy.pdf

As to the matter of whether permaculture can be called such at less
than formal training level, I seek not to teach but proudly practice,
and with success on various fronts, though I have but a simple PDC from
1993, plus much more in real life. It remains permaculture. I did a six
week, 36 hour cordon bleu cooking course in 1970, which clearly met no
formal teaching standards but I have persisted in claiming to 'cook',
without challenge, and with some community appreciation since.

I haven't done a Buteyko breathing course, but try to 'breath' sensibly.

My knee went away and became painful last year, and a physio and a
bunch of Pilates instructors made it clear to me that for sixty years I
had not known how to walk. So I have learned to walk, with a very
informal and uncertificated program and my knee seems pleased.

This is not meant to be facetious... :-)

- I would like to think that while maintaining teaching standards, we
should also have as an objective that the practice of the ideas in
permaculture about sustainable living on all levels should be as
natural for people as cooking and maybe eventually as natural as
breathing and walking.

cheers

Dennis
www.aplaceof.info


On Wednesday, March 9, 2005, at 04:30 AM, D.A. Riley wrote:


The change of season must be near, lots of thought
provoking...I, too, am trying to shake off the layers
to revealthe new growth.

Level heads prevail when the opinions are weighed in
the end. I suppose it's ego-less comments that allow
MY ego to absorb and assimilate new information; words
like "co-operation" and "interdependance" come to
mind, as they were used in the past few postings. I
like Liz's quotes, they summed something up for me;
persepctive. I agree entirely with Robyn Francis'
method: PDC in a accredited format, and follow-up
courses for those interested in exploring ideas
outside the box. It's not changing the established
formula yet, expanding possibilities for application.

Having composted some of the views on teaching
permaculture (that's the frequent-turning hot compost
method), I want to address my own point of view on a
public forum:

Firstly, for those who favor an inexpensive course
offering: Perhaps we can find an cooperative method
to select, and support, a crew of PDC teachers to tour
the countries offering no-fee PDC training. ? Maybe
too broad a suggestion?

Those who choose their path as a teacher; are willing
to fast-track through a teacher-training program (for
free); in exchange do an "internship" as a free
teacher to gain further experience, can be organized
to teach a course to low-income/mixed income classes.

Robert's thoughts on the oniline teaching/forum are
worth investigating. Though face-to-face contact at
some point has benefits. Group dynamics (in person)
are a great way to exercise cooperative methodolgy. I
learned many things from my co-students in PDC, about
agriculture/food prep./homelife/achitecture/cultural
reality in their communities; I found ways to
communicate outside my normal abilities; playfulness
while exchanging views; personal talents exceding
surface expectations....

If we want to expand beyond the perceived Permaculture
boundries, does it still have to be called
Permaculture?

Regards,

DA





From: liz richardson <lizrsatx@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] anyone else want to host
this list?

My name is Liz Richardson. I am new to the list,
and am inspired by the passion, creativity, and
knowledge I have seen on this list serve in just a
few short days.

I am interested in eco-psychology, new teaching
paradigms and permaculture, among other things.

One of my favorite Einstein quotes is, "A problem
cannot be solved at the same level of consciousness
that created it".

When I find myself blocked I look to nature for an
answer. Nature does not have one seed and disperse
it in one way.

I have found that the learning that has meant the
most to me has been when I have studied on my own.
I have gained precious little from all the hours I
have spent in Universities and being 'taught'.

Another of my favorite quotes is from Reclus,
"Humanity is nature achieving self consciousness"

The self conscious emotions to me are; Pride, self
pity , envy, shame, guilt, ego and the illusion we
are separate from nature, and of course we are
nature, so the illusion we are separate from each
other.

I believe there are many ways to distribute
permaculture information and certification and
maintain the present certification as well. I don't
think it has to be one or the other.

I believe that permaculture, like nature, is
dynamic, not static, which means it is ever
evolving.
Attempting to keep it just the same takes on a
religious (man made) zeal, that eventually leads to
dogma.

I have also studied the work of Monty Roberts,
(Horse Whisperer), he has noted as routine that a
horse will buck before considering a change in
behavior. I have noted the same in humans.

That's my 2 cents worth for now.

Liz





Message: 2
From: "Robert Waldrop" <rmwj@soonernet.com>

Sigh. Permaculture politics.

I am not qualified, fortunately, to have a real
opinion about some of these detailed discussions,
being as how I have never been to a full scale
design course, only a weekend intro plus five
years or so of reading on my own, trying to figure
out concepts.

If I could have my own permaculture wish (where is
that fairy godmother when you need her?), it would
be for a way to make permaculture more accessible
to those with lower incomes.

Regarding permaculture training, as I understand
it the basic course is lecture oriented. This
being the case, I have a suggestion for a
permaculture experiment and observation. One
thing I have learned about permaculture is the
importance of observation and being willing to try
new and different choices.

What about an on-line or "distance learning"
permaculture design course? ("Distance learning"
is the modern name for what used to be called
"correspondence courses".)

It could combine the following elements:

(1) Required readings,
(2) online discussion forum (presumably limited to
the attendees)
(3) Maybe even a "chat" forum for live
discussions.

Cyberspace has both limitations and opportunities
for personal contact, about which I won't say much
more right now, but having been in cyberspace
since hmmm 1993, and moderating many discussion
groups (21 at most recent count), it is a way to
convey a massive amount of information. And
several of the groups I moderate have, over time,
developed into tender and caring human
communities, even though we are scattered all over
the world and have never met in person.

A regular program of permaculture distance
learning would help open up permaculture training
to people with lower incomes. I am not
necessarily suggesting free training, but I would
suggest a lower tuition charge than is presently
generally the case, since more students could be
accomodated via distance learning than in an
in-person course. using the internet would
eliminate the cost of travel, which adds to the
price of permaculture training, and it also
resolves the time problem. e.g., I get 2 weeks
vacation per year, so if I do a full design
course, there goes my annual vacation. And while
a permaculture course would be "getting away" from
my normal routine, I wouldn't think of it as a
vacation.

Anyway, this is my suggestion.

Robert Waldrop




------------------------------

Message: 3
From: Greg <FarmerGreg@UrbanFarm.org>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] anyone else want to host
this list?

Robert,

Unfortunately it is not about politics. It is about
people being
right, which places the other side as wrong.
Perfect circumstances
for a war. And it is about people being unkind. If
we could just
look in our heart and ask ourselves how do we want
to be treated then
treat others that way we would go a long way.

Greg






__________________________________
Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday!
Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/
_______________________________________________
permaculture mailing list
permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture


_______________________________________________
permaculture mailing list
permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture


_______________________________________________
permaculture mailing list
permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture






Archive powered by MHonArc 2.6.24.

Top of Page