permaculture

["Graham Burnett" <grahamburnett@blueyonder.co.uk>]

Hi Dennis- mind if I forward that link to some other contacts and lists I'm
on? It's great!

Cheers Graham

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dennis Argall" <dennisargall@bigpond.com>
To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 4:29 AM
Subject: Re: [permaculture] permie politics


> Just a couple of comments on all this...
>
> I like DA's comments on co-operation and interdependence, and I think
> it important to regard community building as a top priority here in
> such a group as well as among plants and physical structures.
>
> I have found it helpful in actual communities as well as online to draw
> on these principles I have put in a one page pdf document at my web
> site:
> http://aplaceof.info/healthyunhealthy.pdf
>
> As to the matter of whether permaculture can be called such at less
> than formal training level, I seek not to teach but proudly practice,
> and with success on various fronts, though I have but a simple PDC from
> 1993, plus much more in real life. It remains permaculture. I did a six
> week, 36 hour cordon bleu cooking course in 1970, which clearly met no
> formal teaching standards but I have persisted in claiming to 'cook',
> without challenge, and with some community appreciation since.
>
> I haven't done a Buteyko breathing course, but try to 'breath' sensibly.
>
> My knee went away and became painful last year, and a physio and a
> bunch of Pilates instructors made it clear to me that for sixty years I
> had not known how to walk. So I have learned to walk, with a very
> informal and uncertificated program and my knee seems pleased.
>
> This is not meant to be facetious... :-)
>
> -  I would like to think that while maintaining teaching standards, we
> should also have as an objective that the practice of the ideas in
> permaculture about sustainable living on all levels should be as
> natural for people as cooking and maybe eventually as natural as
> breathing and walking.
>
> cheers
>
> Dennis
> www.aplaceof.info
>
>
> On Wednesday, March 9, 2005, at 04:30  AM, D.A. Riley wrote:
>
> >
> > The change of season must be near, lots of thought
> > provoking...I, too, am trying to shake off the layers
> > to revealthe new growth.
> >
> > Level heads prevail when the opinions are weighed in
> > the end. I suppose it's ego-less comments that allow
> > MY ego to absorb and assimilate new information; words
> > like "co-operation" and "interdependance" come to
> > mind, as they were used in the past few postings. I
> > like Liz's quotes, they summed something up for me;
> > persepctive. I agree entirely with Robyn Francis'
> > method: PDC in a accredited format, and follow-up
> > courses for those interested in exploring ideas
> > outside the box. It's not changing the established
> > formula yet, expanding possibilities for application.
> >
> > Having composted some of the views on teaching
> > permaculture (that's the frequent-turning hot compost
> > method), I want to address my own point of view on a
> > public forum:
> >
> > Firstly, for those who favor an inexpensive course
> > offering:  Perhaps we can find an cooperative method
> > to select, and support, a crew of PDC teachers to tour
> > the countries offering no-fee PDC training. ? Maybe
> > too broad a suggestion?
> >
> >  Those who choose their path as a teacher; are willing
> > to fast-track through a teacher-training program (for
> > free); in exchange do an "internship" as a free
> > teacher to gain further experience, can be organized
> > to teach a course to low-income/mixed income classes.
> >
> > Robert's thoughts on the oniline teaching/forum are
> > worth investigating. Though face-to-face contact at
> > some point has benefits. Group dynamics (in person)
> > are a great way to exercise cooperative methodolgy. I
> > learned  many things from my co-students in PDC, about
> > agriculture/food prep./homelife/achitecture/cultural
> > reality in their communities; I found ways to
> > communicate outside my normal abilities; playfulness
> > while exchanging views; personal talents exceding
> > surface expectations....
> >
> > If we want to expand beyond the perceived Permaculture
> > boundries, does it still have to be called
> > Permaculture?
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > DA
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  From: liz richardson <lizrsatx@yahoo.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [permaculture] anyone else want to host
> >> this list?
> >>
> >> My name is Liz Richardson.  I am new to the list,
> >> and am inspired by the passion, creativity, and
> >> knowledge I have seen on this list serve in just a
> >> few short days.
> >>
> >> I am interested in eco-psychology, new teaching
> >> paradigms and permaculture, among other things.
> >>
> >> One of my favorite Einstein quotes is, "A problem
> >> cannot be solved at the same level of consciousness
> >> that created it".
> >>
> >> When I find myself blocked I look to nature for an
> >> answer.  Nature does not have one seed and disperse
> >> it in one way.
> >>
> >> I have found that the learning that has meant the
> >> most to me has been when I have studied on my own.
> >> I have gained precious little from all the hours I
> >> have spent in Universities and being 'taught'.
> >>
> >> Another of my favorite quotes is from Reclus,
> >> "Humanity is nature achieving self consciousness"
> >>
> >> The self conscious emotions to me are;  Pride, self
> >> pity , envy, shame, guilt, ego and the illusion we
> >> are separate from nature, and of course we are
> >> nature, so the illusion we are separate from each
> >> other.
> >>
> >> I believe there are many ways to distribute
> >> permaculture information and certification and
> >> maintain the present certification as well.  I don't
> >> think it has to be one or the other.
> >>
> >> I believe that permaculture, like nature, is
> >> dynamic, not static, which means it is ever
> >> evolving.
> >> Attempting to keep it just the same takes on a
> >> religious (man made) zeal, that eventually leads to
> >> dogma.
> >>
> >> I have also studied the work of Monty Roberts,
> >> (Horse Whisperer), he has noted as routine that a
> >> horse will buck before considering a change in
> >> behavior.  I have noted the same in humans.
> >>
> >> That's my 2 cents worth for now.
> >>
> >> Liz
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> Message: 2
> >> From: "Robert Waldrop" <rmwj@soonernet.com>
> >>
> >> Sigh.  Permaculture politics.
> >>
> >> I am not qualified, fortunately, to have a real
> >> opinion about some of these detailed discussions,
> >> being as how I have never been to a full scale
> >> design course, only a weekend intro plus five
> >> years or so of reading on my own, trying to figure
> >> out concepts.
> >>
> >> If I could have my own permaculture wish (where is
> >> that fairy godmother when you need her?), it would
> >> be for a way to make permaculture more accessible
> >> to those with lower incomes.
> >>
> >> Regarding permaculture training, as I understand
> >> it the basic course is lecture oriented.  This
> >> being the case, I have a suggestion for a
> >> permaculture experiment and observation.  One
> >> thing I have learned about permaculture is the
> >> importance of observation and being willing to try
> >> new and different choices.
> >>
> >> What about an on-line or "distance learning"
> >> permaculture design course?  ("Distance learning"
> >> is the modern name for what used to be called
> >> "correspondence courses".)
> >>
> >> It could combine the following elements:
> >>
> >> (1) Required readings,
> >> (2) online discussion forum (presumably limited to
> >> the attendees)
> >> (3) Maybe even a "chat" forum for live
> >> discussions.
> >>
> >> Cyberspace has both limitations and opportunities
> >> for personal contact, about which I won't say much
> >> more right now, but having been in cyberspace
> >> since hmmm 1993, and moderating many discussion
> >> groups (21 at most recent count), it is a way to
> >> convey a massive amount of information.  And
> >> several of the groups I moderate have, over time,
> >> developed into tender and caring human
> >> communities, even though we are scattered all over
> >> the world and have never met in person.
> >>
> >> A regular program of permaculture distance
> >> learning would help open up permaculture training
> >> to people with lower incomes.  I am not
> >> necessarily suggesting free training, but I would
> >> suggest a lower tuition charge than is presently
> >> generally the case, since more students could be
> >> accomodated via distance learning than in an
> >> in-person course.  using the internet would
> >> eliminate the cost of travel, which adds to the
> >> price of permaculture training, and it also
> >> resolves the time problem.  e.g., I get 2 weeks
> >> vacation per year, so if I do a full design
> >> course, there goes my annual vacation.  And while
> >> a permaculture course would be "getting away" from
> >> my normal routine, I wouldn't think of it as a
> >> vacation.
> >>
> >> Anyway, this is my suggestion.
> >>
> >> Robert Waldrop
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 3
> >> From: Greg <FarmerGreg@UrbanFarm.org>
> >> Subject: Re: [permaculture] anyone else want to host
> >> this list?
> >>
> >> Robert,
> >>
> >> Unfortunately it is not about politics.  It is about
> >> people being
> >> right, which places the other side as wrong.
> >> Perfect circumstances
> >> for a war.  And it is about people being unkind.  If
> >> we could just
> >> look in our heart and ask ourselves how do we want
> >> to be treated then
> >> treat others that way we would go a long way.
> >>
> >> Greg
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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