permaculture

["Forest Garden" <forestgarden@austin.rr.com>]

Hello Everyone,

Here is a question for those of you who have travelled broadly, and seen a
lot of the permaculute world.  Where on earth is there the most permaculture
happening in one place?   Does anyone know of a collection of communities or
villages where the population is oriented towards living in harmony with
nature?  I know there are lots of scattered eco-villages here and there, but
does anyone know of a place where there is a really large collective focus
on sustainability?

Our little family is looking for a community or village to move to.  We
totally get it about having community of like minded souls for real
sustainability.  (We've spent enough time trying to do it on our own, or
create community where it only exists on a small scale).  We beleive that
peak oil is all too immenent, and we want to move to a place while we still
can.  We have lots of hard won skills in implementing permaculture, two
engineering degrees, good health, some financial resources, and two kids.
We are confident we could get through any immigration dept in the world - so
please let us know regardless of the country!.  Our primary requirement is
finding a place where the collective population has a focus on
sustainability.  Second main requirement is a temeprate or tropical climate
with good soil (easy growing!).  And the third is that there is a spiritual
element in the community - I know that is a bit vague, but I am sure with a
permie collective, it will be there.  We are Americans, but seriously want
to leave this country (don't get me started on why...).

I've heard of an area around Byron Bay or Nimbin in Austrialia.  Anyone know
of this area?  Familiar with it?  We've also been looking at the area of
Nelson, New Zealand, but it is a wee bit cold, although do-able.

Any information / suggestions greatly appreciated.

If you would like to contact me off list, my email address is
forestgarden@austin.rr.com.

Thank you so much!

Marjory





----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis Argall" <dennisargall@bigpond.com>
To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 10:29 PM
Subject: Re: [permaculture] permie politics


> Just a couple of comments on all this...
>
> I like DA's comments on co-operation and interdependence, and I think
> it important to regard community building as a top priority here in
> such a group as well as among plants and physical structures.
>
> I have found it helpful in actual communities as well as online to draw
> on these principles I have put in a one page pdf document at my web
> site:
> http://aplaceof.info/healthyunhealthy.pdf
>
> As to the matter of whether permaculture can be called such at less
> than formal training level, I seek not to teach but proudly practice,
> and with success on various fronts, though I have but a simple PDC from
> 1993, plus much more in real life. It remains permaculture. I did a six
> week, 36 hour cordon bleu cooking course in 1970, which clearly met no
> formal teaching standards but I have persisted in claiming to 'cook',
> without challenge, and with some community appreciation since.
>
> I haven't done a Buteyko breathing course, but try to 'breath' sensibly.
>
> My knee went away and became painful last year, and a physio and a
> bunch of Pilates instructors made it clear to me that for sixty years I
> had not known how to walk. So I have learned to walk, with a very
> informal and uncertificated program and my knee seems pleased.
>
> This is not meant to be facetious... :-)
>
> -  I would like to think that while maintaining teaching standards, we
> should also have as an objective that the practice of the ideas in
> permaculture about sustainable living on all levels should be as
> natural for people as cooking and maybe eventually as natural as
> breathing and walking.
>
> cheers
>
> Dennis
> www.aplaceof.info
>
>
> On Wednesday, March 9, 2005, at 04:30  AM, D.A. Riley wrote:
>
> >
> > The change of season must be near, lots of thought
> > provoking...I, too, am trying to shake off the layers
> > to revealthe new growth.
> >
> > Level heads prevail when the opinions are weighed in
> > the end. I suppose it's ego-less comments that allow
> > MY ego to absorb and assimilate new information; words
> > like "co-operation" and "interdependance" come to
> > mind, as they were used in the past few postings. I
> > like Liz's quotes, they summed something up for me;
> > persepctive. I agree entirely with Robyn Francis'
> > method: PDC in a accredited format, and follow-up
> > courses for those interested in exploring ideas
> > outside the box. It's not changing the established
> > formula yet, expanding possibilities for application.
> >
> > Having composted some of the views on teaching
> > permaculture (that's the frequent-turning hot compost
> > method), I want to address my own point of view on a
> > public forum:
> >
> > Firstly, for those who favor an inexpensive course
> > offering:  Perhaps we can find an cooperative method
> > to select, and support, a crew of PDC teachers to tour
> > the countries offering no-fee PDC training. ? Maybe
> > too broad a suggestion?
> >
> >  Those who choose their path as a teacher; are willing
> > to fast-track through a teacher-training program (for
> > free); in exchange do an "internship" as a free
> > teacher to gain further experience, can be organized
> > to teach a course to low-income/mixed income classes.
> >
> > Robert's thoughts on the oniline teaching/forum are
> > worth investigating. Though face-to-face contact at
> > some point has benefits. Group dynamics (in person)
> > are a great way to exercise cooperative methodolgy. I
> > learned  many things from my co-students in PDC, about
> > agriculture/food prep./homelife/achitecture/cultural
> > reality in their communities; I found ways to
> > communicate outside my normal abilities; playfulness
> > while exchanging views; personal talents exceding
> > surface expectations....
> >
> > If we want to expand beyond the perceived Permaculture
> > boundries, does it still have to be called
> > Permaculture?
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > DA
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  From: liz richardson <lizrsatx@yahoo.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [permaculture] anyone else want to host
> >> this list?
> >>
> >> My name is Liz Richardson.  I am new to the list,
> >> and am inspired by the passion, creativity, and
> >> knowledge I have seen on this list serve in just a
> >> few short days.
> >>
> >> I am interested in eco-psychology, new teaching
> >> paradigms and permaculture, among other things.
> >>
> >> One of my favorite Einstein quotes is, "A problem
> >> cannot be solved at the same level of consciousness
> >> that created it".
> >>
> >> When I find myself blocked I look to nature for an
> >> answer.  Nature does not have one seed and disperse
> >> it in one way.
> >>
> >> I have found that the learning that has meant the
> >> most to me has been when I have studied on my own.
> >> I have gained precious little from all the hours I
> >> have spent in Universities and being 'taught'.
> >>
> >> Another of my favorite quotes is from Reclus,
> >> "Humanity is nature achieving self consciousness"
> >>
> >> The self conscious emotions to me are;  Pride, self
> >> pity , envy, shame, guilt, ego and the illusion we
> >> are separate from nature, and of course we are
> >> nature, so the illusion we are separate from each
> >> other.
> >>
> >> I believe there are many ways to distribute
> >> permaculture information and certification and
> >> maintain the present certification as well.  I don't
> >> think it has to be one or the other.
> >>
> >> I believe that permaculture, like nature, is
> >> dynamic, not static, which means it is ever
> >> evolving.
> >> Attempting to keep it just the same takes on a
> >> religious (man made) zeal, that eventually leads to
> >> dogma.
> >>
> >> I have also studied the work of Monty Roberts,
> >> (Horse Whisperer), he has noted as routine that a
> >> horse will buck before considering a change in
> >> behavior.  I have noted the same in humans.
> >>
> >> That's my 2 cents worth for now.
> >>
> >> Liz
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> Message: 2
> >> From: "Robert Waldrop" <rmwj@soonernet.com>
> >>
> >> Sigh.  Permaculture politics.
> >>
> >> I am not qualified, fortunately, to have a real
> >> opinion about some of these detailed discussions,
> >> being as how I have never been to a full scale
> >> design course, only a weekend intro plus five
> >> years or so of reading on my own, trying to figure
> >> out concepts.
> >>
> >> If I could have my own permaculture wish (where is
> >> that fairy godmother when you need her?), it would
> >> be for a way to make permaculture more accessible
> >> to those with lower incomes.
> >>
> >> Regarding permaculture training, as I understand
> >> it the basic course is lecture oriented.  This
> >> being the case, I have a suggestion for a
> >> permaculture experiment and observation.  One
> >> thing I have learned about permaculture is the
> >> importance of observation and being willing to try
> >> new and different choices.
> >>
> >> What about an on-line or "distance learning"
> >> permaculture design course?  ("Distance learning"
> >> is the modern name for what used to be called
> >> "correspondence courses".)
> >>
> >> It could combine the following elements:
> >>
> >> (1) Required readings,
> >> (2) online discussion forum (presumably limited to
> >> the attendees)
> >> (3) Maybe even a "chat" forum for live
> >> discussions.
> >>
> >> Cyberspace has both limitations and opportunities
> >> for personal contact, about which I won't say much
> >> more right now, but having been in cyberspace
> >> since hmmm 1993, and moderating many discussion
> >> groups (21 at most recent count), it is a way to
> >> convey a massive amount of information.  And
> >> several of the groups I moderate have, over time,
> >> developed into tender and caring human
> >> communities, even though we are scattered all over
> >> the world and have never met in person.
> >>
> >> A regular program of permaculture distance
> >> learning would help open up permaculture training
> >> to people with lower incomes.  I am not
> >> necessarily suggesting free training, but I would
> >> suggest a lower tuition charge than is presently
> >> generally the case, since more students could be
> >> accomodated via distance learning than in an
> >> in-person course.  using the internet would
> >> eliminate the cost of travel, which adds to the
> >> price of permaculture training, and it also
> >> resolves the time problem.  e.g., I get 2 weeks
> >> vacation per year, so if I do a full design
> >> course, there goes my annual vacation.  And while
> >> a permaculture course would be "getting away" from
> >> my normal routine, I wouldn't think of it as a
> >> vacation.
> >>
> >> Anyway, this is my suggestion.
> >>
> >> Robert Waldrop
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 3
> >> From: Greg <FarmerGreg@UrbanFarm.org>
> >> Subject: Re: [permaculture] anyone else want to host
> >> this list?
> >>
> >> Robert,
> >>
> >> Unfortunately it is not about politics.  It is about
> >> people being
> >> right, which places the other side as wrong.
> >> Perfect circumstances
> >> for a war.  And it is about people being unkind.  If
> >> we could just
> >> look in our heart and ask ourselves how do we want
> >> to be treated then
> >> treat others that way we would go a long way.
> >>
> >> Greg
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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